發表評論 評論 (144 個評論)
- 回復 smartman
- thanks for comments.
賭博客: 多謝分享你的經歷，我也想多談一點我讀史的感受：
人成功了以後總是要把自己的過去重新粉飾一遍的。一個民族也是這樣。現在的西方文明認祖傳承自古希臘文明，於是 ...
1. this article has won too many comments but unfortunately i have no time to follow all the comments. so, i am simply replying to yours only.
2. as for ancient greek legacy, similar as China Spring-Fall War Country Dynasty (I made up this word), there were many, many schools and legends at that time. It is not fair for us now to pick up a particular, non-popular extreme school and draw conclusions based on this single school. The reality is, the most influential consequence nowadays in western countries originating from ancient Greek culture are from Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle (let me call them SPA, they are teacher - student - student). You could easily find out their legends are overwhelming in western culture and society for thousands of years.
My point, we should recognize the primary school from ancient Greek legends, not to overemphasize too much on certain extreme schools.
3. Socrates/Plato emphasizes on ruling the society by elite classes. This is close to Confucianism that emphasize personal development. Both Socrates and Confusion implied that governing the society needs elite personnel who are well educated, reflected and well maintained with mature mindset. That is what Confucianism said, 「Xiu Shen, Qi Jia, Zi Guo, Ping TianXia」 (enhance yourself, manage your family, rule the country, unite the entire world). I think their major difference is Confucian emphasizes Ren, (i.e., love people), taking care of people kindly and gently, while SPA emphasizes rationale and consistent rules.
4. 近代我們被西方打敗，只能說明我們科學技術上的落後，不能因此而否定我們原有的崇高的價值觀念 – this was a 100 year topic ever since Qing Dynasty. SPA emphasized empirical sciences and developed the modern scientific theory. We have been trying for over a 100 years to import western science and technology while preserving our own culture. It was a failed practice until, arguably 30 years ago. So, some scholars claimed again science and culture are separable. Regardless of whether we want to maintain or preserve our own Confucianism culture, we know we must observe, respect and learn from and catch up with western science & tech, which has been upheld by ancient greek SPA legacy for thousands of years.
Overall summary: don』t over-emphasize a particular, non-dominating school's influence from ancient greek culture.
- 回復 smartman
- i largely support you in your discussion.
xqw63: 等級制度的鼓吹者在西方難道沒有被拋棄嗎？難道咱們東方人卻要把這個被現代文明證明是糟粕的東西還繼續保持下去嗎？
..."我文章主要想要主張堅守東方價值觀的，沒有具體。"...
i have a feeling that LZ dislikes western culture and system, so he promotes 堅守東方價值觀. 東方價值觀 contains many dirty,out-dated stuffs that should be abolished and LZ has no idea to explain which should be preserved and which should be abolished. he simply promotes an empty concept to hold against the current prevailing western system and culture.
if i might be a bit too picky, i don't think LZ has a thorough understanding of Confucianism and Ancient Greek schools. For example, the kernel of Confucianism is Ren Zhen, while Ren is "Love People". The most popular ancient greek legacy is Socrates-Plato-Aristotle school that has been dominating for thousands of years, not the Machiavilian scheme. Please allow me to speak frankly that LZ had better read Plato's <<Ideal Country>> and Confucian's <<Lun Yu>> and <<Meng Zi>> again carefully.
- 回復 xqw63
- 你說的有道理，樓主自己也無法解釋清楚東方的價值觀
smartman: i largely support you in your discussion.
..."我文章主要想要主張堅守東方價值觀的，沒有具體。"...
i have a feeling that LZ dislikes west ...
- 回復 沒有放屁
- 駱家輝的提包實際上是個手提電腦。是在飛機上消磨時間的，究竟要10個小時啊。他們一家五口居然連手提箱都沒有帶一個，肯定是全部由國家託運了，究竟是全家來中國啊。用的可以由使館提供，但衣服總得要自己帶一些吧？ 但他們實際一件真正的手提行李都沒有。不坐大使專用車，不是不願坐，也不是不肯坐，而是嫌大使專用車太小，坐不下他一家五口。其實他如果願意自己開車，後排坐三個孩子，也不是完全坐不下，不過是要擠一些，那有坐商務車舒服？？那輛商務車不會是備用車，肯定另有用處，誰讓他是大使？ 是第一把手，他要坐，誰敢說不？？
至於坐經濟艙，他的確是駐中國大使中第一個，引起記者提問，十分正常。沒有人問，才不正常呢！！
- 回復 賭博客
- 我倒是很想同你進行些深入的探討，但由於談孔子，談蘇格拉大，柏拉圖，我希望你也用中文，這樣我理解你的觀點會比較清晰
smartman: i largely support you in your discussion.
..."我文章主要想要主張堅守東方價值觀的，沒有具體。"...
i have a feeling that LZ dislikes west ...
- 回復 賭博客
- 首先，在古希臘，智者學派根本就不是一個小學派，在當時甚至比蘇格拉底影響更大，蘇格拉底之死據信也與此學派有關。直到後來柏拉圖的阿喀穆德學園的建立以後，柏拉圖以其偉大的理念世界戰勝了智者派。但智者學派的影響卻從沒減弱過。
smartman: thanks for comments.
1. this article has won too many comments but unfortunately i have no time to follow all the comments. so, i am simply replying ...
其次，就如同中國自漢武帝以來，奉行的多是「內用黃老，外示儒術」的治國方略。其實，西方又何嘗不是如此呢？蘇格拉底的倫理，柏拉圖的理想國從來沒有被西方實踐過，相反，智者學派歷來被統治者所推崇。而且當今西方價值觀中的平等，自由為智者派主張。
- 回復 賭博客
- 你還真是門兒清，多謝支持哈
沒有放屁: 駱家輝的提包實際上是個手提電腦。是在飛機上消磨時間的，究竟要10個小時啊。他們一家五口居然連手提箱都沒有帶一個，肯定是全部由國家託運了，究竟是全家來中國 ...
- 回復 沒有放屁
- 因為我每次坐飛機，也都帶這麼一個手提電腦，不過還要多一個手拉小箱子。有時還帶一個雙肩背。當然我是屁民，不能和大使比。你這個帖子寫得真好，思維清晰，實事求是。我在時事版向網友也特別推薦大家來看這個帖子。
賭博客: 你還真是門兒清，多謝支持哈
- 回復 心如水
- 這不是團派的問題，現在的官僚資產階級或說權貴資產階級是瓜分國有資產的產物，道德淪喪的根源。江澤民是罪魁禍首。
qxw66: 共黨背叛了革命，背叛了人民，自己無恥的變成從前革命的對象，這樣，從以前的大義凜然，變成了現在做賊心虛。。。結果西方（３００年來殺人上億的惡棍）居然可以 ...
