害人不淺的《每天一起練口語》

This sentence, with its accompanying Chinese explanation, appears in  《每天一起練口語(9)----害羞2》:「Have a little wine, punk. 小夥子，喝一點酒吧。（可以緩解一下精神緊張）」
Punk is not 小夥子. The current use of punk is closer to 流氓.
Imagine what would happen when you walk up to a stranger in a bar and say to him, 「Have a little wine, punk.」 I bet he would stand up, look you in the eye, and says, 「Who are you calling a punk, you filty bastard @#&*!~^* (some kind of racial slur)」, and proceeds to punch you in the face.

  I wonder if you have seen an old episode in "Monty Python and the Flying Circus" in which a Polish tourist with a supposedly 「Polish-English」 phrase book walking into a store and start uttering complete nonsense by reading sentences off that book. Hilarious. But now, life seems to imitate art. This kind of learning material is slated for the beginner: those who cannot tell right from wrong, and thus, are the ones who will be hurt the most.  
   This set of mistake filled 「lessons」 is all over the Internet (Chinese learning English sites of all sizes). I don』t know if they are from a book or are from notes. It makes one wonders how good the English these people who run these websites are.
   I quickly went over the first 30 of N lessons (I don』t know how many there are), and found at least 20% of the annotations in Chinese are either incorrect or irrelevant. About 10% of the sentence included in the lessons have no bearing on everyday life conversations (such as saying 「Amen」 when saying goodbye.)
  Here are a few example of the collections I have made at  http://www.rainlane.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=11&id=21413
From Chapter 2:
Tell me, is it a boy? 喂，你是男孩嗎？-->修改/註解: Obviously, this is a question about if someone is a boy or a girl. The most likely scenario is: 「Hey George, my wife has just given birth.」」 Tell me, is it a boy?」
From Chapter 11:
I wonder if it's a real diamond. 它可是地道的鑽石呀。-->修改/註解: 「I wonder」=I doubt-->我懷疑這是否真的鑽石呀。
From Chapter 22: Rumor says I won't get any insurance. 根據傳聞，我無法領到保險金了。-->修改/註解:  I  won』t get any insurance=I would not be able to get an insurance policy=no one wants to insure me. 我無法買到保險。
From Chapter 25:　　He's a dumb guy. 他是位沉默的老兄。-->修改/註解:  NO! Dumb is not 沉默　 Dumb means stupid.

From Chapter 26:
Hmm, I'm stoned. 哼，我是個老古板。-->修改/註解: 」stoned」: slang for intoxicated. (by alcohol or drugs)
　　Look, he's high. 瞧，他是個高傲的傢伙。-->修改/註解: 」high」, slang for euphoric experience under intoxication by alcohol, drugs or other stimulation.

Here is one that is really weird. In lesson 30, this sentence shows up:
This mouse would be delicious. 這隻老鼠似乎很是可口。
When is the last time you have used this in conversation? Some of you may have feline inclinations, I don』t know. But I doubt most of us would care much about eating a mouse.
My speculation is that the author either copied it down wrong or thought that 「mousse」 in the sentence was misspelled so he changed it to 「mouse.」 The person who annotated it never asked any questions.


As mentioned earlier, I have only worked on the first 30 chapters. The examples above are part of the corrections posted at http://www.rainlane.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=11&id=21413

I don』t have the heart to call any friend punk because all of my friends are part of my life, and I don』t have the gut to call any unknown person punk either because I want to live longer. However, I did call some friends punk while we teased with each other.

TheYeti3, thank you for sharing.

我是個老古板。--> I am an old-timer, I ponder.

Yeah, I agree with zzyxz. Thanks for sharing!

This mouse would be delicious. 這隻老鼠似乎很是可口。
When is the last time you have used this in conversation? Some of you may have feline inclinations, I don』t know. But I doubt most of us would care much about eating a mouse.
My speculation is that the author either copied it down wrong or thought that 「mousse」 in the sentence was misspelled so he changed it to 「mouse.」 The person who annotated it never asked any questions.
----------------------------------------------

hahahaha, uncle yeti, everything seems edible in the eyes of every single Cantonese on earth. It is said they love rats and mouse as well as the other type of wild animals. That was also why SARS got spread all over China.

There was a time people speculated the SARS was spread from civet cats. I wonder what happened to that hypothesis.

Going back to "bad teaching materials", I am feeling sorry for the many new English learners in China who do not have access to good schools and good teachers. Some of them end up with getting this sh*t as their learning material. It is scarry when I found some of the clearning houses for teaching material is holding this stuff for teachers to download.
Here are a few examples:
上海徐匯區教育城域網 - 元數據分類
每天一起練口語1寒暄 588位元組 04/05/12 3 每天一起練口語19命令的表達 909位元組

南昌教育信息網資源中心 - 元數據分類
每天一起練口語1寒暄 1KB K12資源庫

榮成教育信息網網格資源建設平台 - 元數據分類
每天一起練口語1寒暄 588位元組 04/05/12 1

  Don't people check? Some of the sentences in this collection are so way out of ordinary usage that they have no merit for learning. E.g. one sentence for saying goodbye is "Amen."  Since when do you hear that in saying goodbye (except to a dead person.)  Another one says, "Help, I am being kidnaped." (That may be useful, I must admit, but I doubt someone will hear you.)
   The people who need this most (the beginning learners) are the ones who cannot tell if there are mistakes; they ended up getting hurt the most.

   You be surprise at the inability of some people to notice bad English. And some of them are moderators and supermoderators of English forums.

   Can you make a guess at what these are:
I. The remotest distance is not in the world ;
Raw and dead but;
---
II.On the boundary farthest distance
Is not to living with die
--
Yes, that's the "English" (English, you say?) version of 張小嫻's 世界上最遙遠的距離 I found in 2 forums.

  The weirdest thing is, some of the readers think they are great.

[QUOTE=TheYeti3]There was a time people speculated the SARS was spread from civet cats. I wonder what happened to th...[/QUOTE]

Please let me know where you have found those.

The remotest distance … should be 「the most remote distance」, and as to the other, I consider either 「farthest distance」 or farthest boundary」 is acceptable. Or you have been talking about something else that I have not been aware yet. Or you are talking about rewriting those for good.

I feel sorry for the people to mistake weirdness for greatness.

Those two were originally found here:
http://www.69699.org/viewthread.php?tid=135312&extra=page%3D3
http://www.69699.org/viewthread.php?tid=143269&extra=page%3D1
One of them was found in another forum, but I did not save the URL.
On the same forum, read this and see if you can understand what "hair" is: ("[ the 69English ] of not summit to restrict in a quantity in hair,")
http://www.69699.org/viewthread.php?tid=6287&extra=page%3D1

Several months ago I contacted their administrator privately offering my service to rewrite that for them. Guess what? The next day I found my IP frozen and all my posts deleted. All requests for an explanation were not answered.
===
Talking about weird, here is what I found on Baidu:

1 請問"一小時車程"翻譯成」one hour's car way」對嗎？  
如果不對請幫我寫出對的好嗎？謝謝啦～～～


17 回復：請問"一小時車程"翻譯成」one hour's car way」對嗎？  
a hour make by in car
a car in one of the hour
the ride of full in a hour
a way get a hour.
i agree think this.  

  
作者： 美國人_John  2006-6-21 22:28 　 回復此發言  
Why would this fellow, who obviously has problems with his English, call himself a  美國人?

duplicate, please delete.

Wow this post sure is an eye-opener for me, I do see how lotsa stuff done in china are not actually done for the sake of what they say they do, but something else aka 面子工程. But c'mon I mean learning english's purpose is to communicate with english-speakers, who do they think they are cheating on eventually?

There is a website called www.engrish.com and they post stupid "engrish" everyday that are usually taken as pictures from all over east asia, it does show how phenomenal it is that people use english because they want it to look like "english", yet the content whether it is correct or not, is actually less of a concern.

As of the person's id "美國人_John", man, it doesn't surprise me if someone who lives in the USA is like this. Watch our dear Mythologist person, he is a live example in this community lol.

he isn't a "bad guy". forgive him.

[:439:] [:439:]

[QUOTE=招財貓]Wow this post sure is an eye-opener for me, I do see how lotsa stuff done in china are not actually ...[/QUOTE]

Hi Fortune Kitty,

Like you, a guy having been in the US for a while, I usually care less about how others write with their English, I care more about understanding each other through writing and speaking in English at work, at home and everywhere else in the US. I make mistakes while producing my business correspondences daily or weekly and no one has really been questioning about that for a long time, and I also acknowledge some of my American fellows misuse words in their writings at times.

However, most of the English Forums hosted by our Chinese fellows tend towards helping Chinese people learn English. No learners would like to be misled when accessing language learning materials from the forums. TheYeti3 has a very strong English education background and is just trying to help learners differentiate the bad stuff from the good.  I appreciate what he』s been doing for learners, and understand what you have said as well. We are here just for fun. Hope you don』t get too personal with my other friend. Thank you.

I wonder who is the author of this set of error-filled 「lessons」.  But I know why is it all over the Internet (Chinese learning English sites of all sizes). Because there are too many recarriers who do simple copying and pasting, and not enough reviewers like you who right the wrong.

While I agree with what you wrote in general, I do have my doubt on one of your arguments.  That is "I wonder = I doubt".  Yes, sometimes "I wonder = I doubt".  However, in other cases, in my opinion, it just means "I like to know" or "I am curious".

According to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, wounder is:
To feel doubt and curiosity; to wait with uncertain expectation; to query in the mind; as, he wondered why they came.

[QUOTE=zzyzx]Hi Fortune Kitty,

Like you, a guy having been in the US for a while, I usually care less about ho...[/QUOTE]

you attacked the wrong person.
I wasnt talking about the thread starter your friend yeti w/e, I was talking about people like mythologist.

I dont think you really got it, yet instead of trying to fully comprehend what I said, you went ahead and tried to "defend" your friends. this is a purely classic example of someone that already have a stereotype about someone else will always find fault in that person no matter what.

all I was trying to say is how people use english in those countries not for using it right, but just using it to look good. and you interpreted it as an insult to your friend's post? wow, I don't know what to say about it. you must hate me very much.

to zzyzx and Vcat:

sorry, it was my fault. i read Vcat's earlier message and had something to say. but i felt it would be improper to mention the name again (though i know him little, i believe he should be a nice person, too), so i cut my follow-up message unreasonably short unawaring that it was only made more confusing. i am indebted to zzyzx who came to help clean the mess i made.

all i wanted to tell Vcat is that we love you and your friends.

I wonder if it's a real diamond. 它可是地道的鑽石呀。-->修改/註解: 「I wonder」=I doubt-->我懷疑這是否真的鑽石呀。

my 2 cetnts: the meaning of "wonder" can change with its objective. here it is the if-clause:

i wonder if it is a real diamond --> i doubt it is a real diamond --> i suspect it is a fake diamond.

the verb can mean differently when the context changes, as below:

i wonder how he could come so early --> i would like to know the means by which he came much earlier than usual.

[QUOTE=招財貓]you attacked the wrong person.
I wasnt talking about the thread starter your friend yeti w/e, I was ...[/QUOTE]
Hi Fortune Kitty,

I apologize for the inconvenience. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, one of my friends in the forums. There was nothing against you at all. I need to watch out what I am saying next time. As to the last few words, I should have said:

「By the way, hope you don』t get too personal with my other friend, mythologist.」

I don』t hate you at all. I love being with you and love to read your threads. Hope I can read more.

Sorry to see that my article has led to controversy, but am glad to see that things have been resolved peacefully.
  Even face to face communication, supplemented by body language and facial cues, can lead to misunderstanding, so it is unavoidable that communication by leaving messages that open to interpretation can easily be misconstrued. We should try give the other guy the benefit of doubt and keep our cool.
Having said that, I must say that I am one of those with a very short fuse. I found myself often overreacting very quickly and regret it afterwards.

As pointed out by other people, as a former teacher (not in English), I am keenly aware of the harm bad teaching material can inflict. During the cruising of Chinese "Learn English" websites and BBSes for the last 3 years, I noticed certain patterns of mistakes. The obvious answer is that these have been passed on by certain teachers (hopefully, only a few, because I know some great and competent teachers in China) and/or teaching materials. With the popularization of the Internet, bad teaching materials are showing up on more and more sites. The people who need them the most are the people who cannot tell if the material is good. They are also those who would be hurt the most.

  A few people are catching on the idea of making easy money out of this Internet English resources fever. 99% of the hundreds of thousands of "Learn English" website surfers are there to "download resources."  90% of those people never actually learn from what they downloaded. An easy way to make money is to set up a site with a few paying ads, and then go around the Internet to gather as much learning material as possible and put them in your site. Thus you can see many duplications of the same material on many of these sites--including duplications of bad materials. The "entrepreneurs" of these sites won't bother to check--they don't even have to know English well themselves!
Of course, there are those who are just enthusiastic about learning English (these are usually ones who run BBSes, not big sites such as Iselong, 51educate,...). A few of them have more enthuisasm than judgement, and simply assume everything they found on the Internet, especially material on large, well established, or prestigious sites are reputable. So with a missionary zeal, they put these up at their own site, with the genuine believe that it would help fellow learners. Thus materials like this start to multiply like weeds. Strangely enough, it is the ones with catchy titles (but bad content, such as 必背/精華/對有用200句) that got wide circulation. (Sounds like the Chinese proverb of good things stays at home, bad news has legs.)
  People who have access to good schools and good teachers will have access to good instruction and good material. Those who rely on themselves to look for learning material are rolling the dice. But then, who says, "Life is fair."

Well done!