移民加拿大，你為的是什麼？--接回復cwjjzhou斑竹的帖子

堂堂的老師（畢竟是腦力工作者）竟然開始從事藍領的工作，而且還不長久，這是一種進步還是退步？  --我始終搞不明白大家移民為的是什麼？
--是更好的發展？-（大家在國內的工作一般都不錯，有的甚至很好，即使有不好的，拿出你在加拿大一半的力氣，一定可以得到好工作） --可看看大家現在的情況，發展不是很容易，總有家裡或者社會的原因牽絆你，所以還是年輕的單身出來好一些，可以開闊眼界，你也輸得起，大不了從頭再來。

--是為了那種刻骨銘心慘痛的經歷？ （這理由很好，我沒話說）~~

--為了那個楓葉卡和護照，以後出國容易--孩子以後上學容易。 （為了這個目的，好多含辛茹苦的父母用青春賭明天，義無反顧的蹲著移民監，省吃儉用，辛苦打工，為了孩子啊---可這又能帶來什麼啊--用自己和愛人的青春和歡樂換來了一個未知的結果-孩子會怎樣，將來會怎樣還很難說，可這份苦我們已經實實在在的在承受了。--這是偉大的父愛母愛嗎？ 試想一個缺乏歡樂的家庭會給孩子什麼樣的影響，--或者你們苦中作樂，--但是從事的工作呢？--大多數還是藍領或者勞力的工作，怎麼向孩子交待--雖然你會說工作無貴賤，但真的沒有貴賤之分嗎？以後孩子就是來自一個這樣的一個家庭，父親母親或是勞力，或是小商人，而在國內他可以來自一個體面的家庭，母親是老師，父親是大公司職員或政府職員---有沒有區別？---關於出國問題，簽證的問題，從中國的發展看，等到孩子能用得到的時候（15-20年後），這個問題難道還會存在嗎？--現在小日本已經放開了，歐美也指日可待，再說照現在的發展速度，那時候我們還有必要出去嗎--除了旅遊？）
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我現在也正在猶豫彷徨，老婆想出來，而我很沒信心，沒有出來的動力。（我們的情況，我是大學教授（副）專業是物理，老婆現在是外企職員，有房可以有車（可以買沒買），老婆的理由就是後面的兩條，主要是最後一條。 看我們的情況，來加拿大找個相當的工作的可能性幾乎是零，只能從頭開始。

---（因為是討論，所以說的情況比較極端，言辭也不很客氣，但沒有人身攻擊的意思，大家諒解。）
[:466:]

You have no choice. Just stay in China. You will be a big loser (no offends, it is a fact)  if you come to Canada. So convince your wife to give up the plan of immigration.

It makes no sense if you guys come to Canada. Canada is a place for somebody who just wants a peaceful life but the prerequisite condition is he has the ability to find a job for living.

i somewhat agree with you~~
i prefer the peaceful life i am living now~~

But~~it seems difficult to convince my wife--even i show her some bloody and horrible examples--she insists that someone will live better here, why we cannot?
--as you know, we are neither stupid nor silly~

Well, since you have money, you still can do it. But you don't quit your job. Your wife can quit. You couple can come here and have a look around Canada. You have enough time to make your final decision. It is a good idea for you to apply for a visiting scholar position in some Canadian university.

Montrealer's suggestion is good.  

It is not easy for an associate professor in China to find a job in Canada unless he can get a visiting scholarship from a Canadian university in advance.  I hope your English (may be French as well) speaking capability is good enough to communicate as a visiting scholar.

On the other hand, your wife has more working experience (Canadian companies may appreciate) than you do.  Since both of you have a pretty good life in China already, you may not be able to stand the first few years of hardship if you immigrate to Canada.

Living in western countries gives you a peaceful life.  The political movements, lack of personal freedom and respect are part of the reasons people want to move away from current China.  In China, people do not respect your privacy.  They love to stick their noses to somewhere they are not supposed to and make all sorts of ridiculous comments.  They invade your privacy right without punishment.  They turn down a basic human right request by putting the interest of the country (government) higher than the interest of individual human being.

I was born in Singapore.  I had been in China for 18 years.  When I finally got out from that country, I felt a great relief.  If I didn't have any relatives still living in China, I might have never wanted to step on that land again.

My situation is quite different from yours.  You are living a much better life than most of the chinese citizens.  Your wife just wants to have a taste of what the life looks like abroad.  Montrealer's suggestion is good.  But don't think a professor doing labour work is a sad thing.   This kind of thought is due to the education people get from China.  The most important thing is you are doing what you like to do.  You may ask yourself some questions: beside teaching in unversity, would I like to do something else?  Am I happy with my job?

移民加拿大我昨天沒後悔,今天不後悔, 相信將來也不會後悔, 因為我移民加拿大我無緣後悔!

親愛的flyingbird朋友, 謝謝你對我的關心. 我在此僅想談談我自己對移民和藍領工作的感受和心得, 僅僅是個人觀點, 若有冒犯, 敬請原諒!!!

朋友, 每個人有每個人的生活方式, 每個人都有選擇自己生活的自由和權利, 對於別人我不想說什麼, 也無權說, 也沒有必要說.但是至於談到我自己的選擇, 我真的無怨無悔!

移民加拿大我真的收穫多多. 先說說我自己吧. 我很喜歡美的自然環境, 對於眼界不很開闊的我來說, 對加拿大的自然環境我只想說 「美」, 空氣清新, 與在北京環境相比(我在北京學習和工作10個年頭, 在秋天北京有很大沙塵, 在春天還有那煩人的柳絮, 不知現在有否改變?」 真是天壤之別! 我比較喜歡遊山玩水, 因為在大自然環境中我可以放縱自己的心, 無限遐想中! 在這兒周末我可以跟家人和朋友一起BBQ. PICNIC 或FISHING, 那是我最幸福的時光, 因為多倫多的夏天較短, 所以倍覺珍惜, 由此而來日程也排得滿滿的! 記得我有一次去ＣＥＮＴＲＡＬ ＩＳＬＡＮＤ，　有ＳＩＧＮ　寫著＂Please walk on the grass!」 我好興奮啊！　在中國什麼時候可以這樣？等到太陽從西邊出嗎？不敢妄想！
　
我和我先生這幾年的生活中有交過很多朋友，且感情很好，　與國內的朋友和同學聯繫也不少，不少，消息更廣，國內的朋友忙這忙那，可能真的很充實，　但是我們也不空虛啊！　相反，　我們有更多的追求，　為了自己，　也為了孩子，　我們有更多的學習空間DD語言，文化子女教育，　別誤會，　需要學習，　並不是等於不好，　因為在我眼裡，　沒有最好，只有更好．．．我們每天都在進步，每天都在隨著孩子一同成長在多元化的加國！
不移民，我們不會有今天的英語，　你會說，國內有很多人士英語比我們好的多，　我承認，　但是我也知道每個人的起點不一樣，　每個人的追求也不一樣．．．沒有移民我門怎會有如此多的感悟．．．

我一直信奉"走自己的路, 讓別人去說吧!" 因為自己覺得活得精彩已經足夠,更何況趁著自己年輕出來闖一闖,至少我們的心靈不會因此而失落!當然,凡事有得有失,得到的同時才更覺失去的可貴, 才會加倍地去珍惜得到的, 不是嗎? 朋友! 我失去了與家人更多團聚的機會,儘管我電話不段,畢竟不一樣...我可能現在沒有洋房,但是我相信那是遲早的事, 因為我們相信, 只要我們想,用心想, 一定可以做到,對嗎? 朋友! 暫時的挫折和失敗只是給日後的成功帶來更多的話題,因為我相信"不經歷風雨, 怎能見彩虹?" 的真理!!

作為父母最大的幸福是看到孩子健康活潑地成長? 中國的孩子們, 阿姨問你, 你們健康嗎? 你們快樂嗎?
我來說說我自己的孩子, 我於2001年來多倫多, 2002 年便賺了一個可愛的兒子, 真的由衷高興, 儘管自己當時什麼都沒有, 但是我先生有一個很強的念頭, 麵包會有的, "兒子有了, 車子有了," "房子和票子遲早會有的..." 隨著孩子的一天天長大, 看著我的兩個可愛的孩子,心裡甚是高興! 到後來接觸到這兒的教育, 更為自己的選擇堅定了信心, 這裡的孩子很快活, 願意上學, "Learn through play" 是這兒的教學宗旨. 我在這兒也在學校VOLUNTEER 過, 感覺上學真的是一件美事.兒童本應是在無憂無慮中度過, 是嗎, 朋友? 在中國可能嗎?望著自己孩子們肩上沉重的負擔, 家長心疼,卻有不敢放棄,好矛盾噢!

家長能改變什麼?只有隨大流, 如果你是一般家長的話! 在加拿大也一樣, 也是隨大流. 可這大流真的很不一樣啊! 家長們, 你們想過沒有? 作為一個以前的教育工作者,我prefer這兒的教育體制,中國一而再, 再而三地強調要減負, 結果怎麼樣呢?是不是越減越負...

我有一個朋友的孩子從中國回來告訴我流傳在中國的一個順口溜, 很是讓我深思
"分,分學生的命根
考,考老師的法寶
打,打家長的王法
錢,錢校長的重點"

而在加拿大
家長不能重打,否則犯法
公立學校根本不收錢...

親愛的移民朋友們, 別再"生在福中不知福" 不要再迷芒, 不再彷徨, 心不再流浪, "既來之, 則安之" ,相信自己沒錯的!!


Good luck

謝謝斑竹的解答~~~
--關於孩子方面，我們可能還是存在分歧，這也是正常的。因為中國的大多數人能夠上大學，讀碩士博士都是從一層層的選拔中，考試中脫穎而出的~~~很早的我們就接受了競爭的挑戰，經歷了競爭的戰火的洗禮--誠然有人在競爭中失敗了，迷失了，但大多數還是勇敢地站起來了---而反觀西方的教育，大家壓根不是很care分數（當然是小學初中，到高中后，如果你想上一個好的大學的話，你也得努力了，不是靠study by play 就可以的）----所以，如果大家都玩得話，你也沒必要用功，因為大家平等啊---可後來的發展就很不好說了，畢竟現在的世界是競爭的世界，而不是平和悠閑的仙境，不早早學點本領，經受點挫折教育，說不定會吃不消--（正如古希臘對待剛出生的嬰兒一樣，有病的或傷殘的一律扔掉，這樣希望整體提高人民的競爭力和戰鬥力）
而且像我在另一個帖子中說的，西方現在的基礎教育普遍很差（數理化方面），米國已經認識到了這一點，正在著手改善------其他的學科當然可以study by play ， 但是數理化方面就不是那麼令人興奮了，也沒那麼多趣味~~只能硬著頭皮學~~

immgrating to canada or not is your personal business. But you should not say 西方現在的基礎教育普遍很差 without doing a research. Please look at the related report by United Nations, especially about canadian primary school's math education.大家平等啊-- != without 競爭的挑戰. In fact, if your child wants to go to top universities, he must pay more than other children in every fields including social acitivities. Good luck to you.

BTW, even in Canadian second-level universities, the academic environment is better than that of No.1 University in China and the academic level is higher than that of No.1 University in China. And the most important, your child will have a happy childhood with freedom and democracy.

順便講一下, 學歷證書只是代表你的過去, 如果你將來在工作中做得很好, 沒有人在乎你是函大或夜大畢業的,反過來你若畢業於清華北大, 而成績平平, 倒是有人會說,"還虧是北大,清華畢業的?" 證書只是表明你學過什麼東西, 但是一個人的能力的確很重要,尤其工作中的學習能力...所以北美很注重能力的培養, 我記得在中國上大學時學過微積分 等, 其實有很多工作是不需要數理化的, 相反我們只需要那種邏輯推理能力, 朋友你說呢?

前兩天, 讀到一則新聞說的是一個北大畢業的後來因各種原因回家幫媽媽賣糖葫蘆, 北大的'"老師說,"真丟北大的臉, 我們沒有這樣的學生." 作為一名老師出身的我, 真是為我們老師說出這樣的話感到悲哀! 相反, 我要告訴這個學生," 你真了不起, 能屈能伸, 將來一定能成氣候."...
我們移民中其中類似例子不勝枚舉...

一句話, 能上能下, 能屈能伸, 便是好漢!!!

順便講一下, 學歷證書只是代表你的過去, 如果你將來在工作中做得很好, 沒有人在乎你是函大或夜大畢業的,反過來你若畢業於清華北大, 而成績平平,
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It is correct for making a living.

However, in Canada, many positions need degree, especially in government and academic institutions. Government position needs at least undergraduate degree. Management position needs master level degree or above. Most teaching positions need Ph.D degree. Most professional jobs need master level degree or above. Bilingual (french and English BBB or CCC level) is mandatory for most government postions. That's why most Chinese immigrants feel difficult to find a decent job.

_______government management position: recent positing on PSRC_________

LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS-MANAGEMENT TRAINEE PROGRAM
Locations: Various Locations
Salary: $47,249 (For individuals who meet the language requirement, the entry-level salary is $47,249. Individuals requiring language training before their appointment will be paid an annual allowance of $37,800 during their training.)
Closing Date: October 3, 2005 - 23:59, Pacific Time Useful Information

Reference Number: HRH05J-005755-000086


Vacancies: Number to be determined


For additional information on this program, please visit: http://www.hrma-agrh.gc.ca/mtp-psg/index_e.asp


Who Can Apply:
Useful Information

Persons residing in Canada and Canadian citizens residing abroad
Citizenship
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Preference will be given to Canadian citizens. Please indicate in your application the reason for which you are entitled to work in Canada: Canadian citizenship, permanent resident status or work permit.

Language
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Bilingual Imperative

English French
Reading Writing Oral
Interaction Reading Writing Oral
Interaction
C B C C B C [/COLOR]
As a condition of employment in this Program, selected candidates must attain CBC/CBC language proficiency level. Those who do not meet this requirement will undergo full-time language training (maximum of 52 consecutive weeks) and must successfully pass language tests at the required level (CBC/CBC) before being appointed to the Program.

In order for unilingual candidates to be considered for this position, the system requires that under the 「Languages」 section you select 「Beginner」 level as a minimum for the qualifier that best describes your ability to work in your second official language. (Do not select 「None」.)

Education
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Completion, by June 2006, of a Master's degree [/COLOR] in any area of study
To see the complete list of academic requirements, click here
OR be able to provide us with a letter from your university attesting that you have completed all requirements in order to obtain your Master's degree by June 30, 2006. Failure to provide proof by June 30, 2006 will result in your candidacy being rejected.
Challenge
The Management Trainee Program (MTP) is looking for highly motivated individuals who have the potential to excel as future leaders in the federal Public Service. Positions are available in various departments and agencies across Canada. This program offers challenging work assignments combined with a learning component. This combination of practical work experience, formal training, and increased support by Career Development Advisors provides participants with a unique opportunity to develop and assume challenging responsibilities within the federal Public Service.

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Successfully write the following tests: Situational Judgement Test (SJT) AND the Written Communication Proficiency Test (WCPT) OR Examen de compétence en communication écrite (ECCÉ).

Only those candidates who have obtained the highest test results will be invited to the subsequent phases of the selection process.

Additional Requirements / Comments
Candidates must be willing to relocate and remain mobile throughout the Program.
In the subsequent phases of the selection process, candidates will need to demonstrate leadership potential and an aptitude for learning a second official language if they are not already bilingual.
Expenses incurred as a result of attending tests and interviews will be the responsibility of the candidate.
A pre-qualified pool may be established.
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Applicants who meet the above criteria will also be assessed against the Statement of Qualifications for this position.

Information to be provided:
When you apply, you must provide the following information or your application will be rejected:

Your resume.
Information on 2 individuals who can provide references.
Candidates must provide contact information (telephone/fax numbers, and e-mail address) for two references: supervisors, professors or superiors from extra-curricular activities.
You must ensure that you select at least one employment type when submitting your application: Employment Tenure

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Your resume must clearly demonstrate that you meet all the requirements.

We thank all those who apply. Only those selected for further consideration will be contacted.

The Public Service of Canada is committed to building a skilled, diverse workforce reflective of Canadian society. As a result, it promotes employment equity and encourages candidates to indicate voluntarily on their application if they are a woman, an Aboriginal person, a person with a disability or a member of a visible minority group.

The Public Service of Canada is also committed to developing inclusive, barrier-free selection processes and work environments. If contacted in relation to a job opportunity or testing, you should advise the Public Service Commission or the departmental official in a timely fashion of the accommodation measures which must be taken to enable you to be assessed in a fair and equitable manner. Information received relating to accommodation measures will be addressed confidentially.

BTW, even in Canadian second-level universities, the academic environment is better than that of No.1 University in China and the academic level is higher than that of No.1 University in China. And the most important, your child will have a happy childhood with freedom and democracy. ---you also don't make a research ~~better not saying it!! Becuase you are not familiar with it~

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關於公務員的問題，中國現在也是至少大專學歷，而且要參加公務員考試阿~~~除了基層農村的（那也是通過選舉過來的）---所以說，這不是差異； 至於大學問題，先看看你所說的那些2流大學是怎麼上的吧--據我所知，好像一般人想上就上吧，只要你有錢夠學費，而不用參加那麼苛刻的考試，---當然學生有好的，但想想那些紈絝子弟，有錢就可以上，他們的素質有多差，那這大學會好到哪裡去~~？---別說我不了解西方的大學，我的同學們很多在米國上大學，所見所聞不少，即使在米國的一流大學中，素質差的也比比皆是，更別說加拿大的2流大學了--竟然說會比中國的1流的好，有點荒謬；----至於找不著工作的事情，主要方面是個人原因（個人內向，不善交往等等），而且看看比例，每年招那麼多學生，有一個找不著工作的，很正常阿--至少比國外大學兇殺，吸毒等致死的人數少很多了~~

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另外，很高興montrealer貼出來那麼多的招工啟示，幹嗎不去試試？--看看標榜平等自由博愛的加拿大政府會不會接納你啊？==（或者相關的滿足條件的中國同胞去試試阿，有成功的我為你鼓掌祝賀~~希望的我不會等太久~~）

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作為討論，言辭難免有尖銳之處，希望 montrealer 和cwjjzhou斑竹見諒!
我們只想就事論事的討論一下加拿大具體的情況，沒有攻擊的意思，可能我得到的關於反面的信息較多，所以會觀點尖刻一點；你們接觸的好東西多一點，所以會幫他說話；這很正常，我只想知道這種比例，亦即是一般情況，不是個別個例~~比如到底政府部門中國移民能幾個進去？

前兩天, 讀到一則新聞說的是一個北大畢業的後來因各種原因回家幫媽媽賣糖葫蘆, 北大的'"老師說,"真丟北大的臉, 我們沒有這樣的學生." 作為一名老師出身的我, 真是為我們老師說出這樣的話感到悲哀! 相反, 我要告訴這個學生," 你真了不起, 能屈能伸, 將來一定能成氣候."...
我們移民中其中類似例子不勝枚舉...

一句話, 能上能下, 能屈能伸, 便是好漢!!!
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----如果斑竹仔細看那個報道的話，我覺得身為當事人的他可不是能屈能伸，而是很無奈，沒辦法，才委曲求全回家做糖葫蘆---這不是卧薪嘗膽，勵精圖治，而是消極的逃避，自暴自棄，難道這種行為也值得歌頌讚揚？---

很高興montrealer貼出來那麼多的招工啟示幹嗎不去試試？--
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I have a professional job and been in this position for 3 years. I am comfortable with this position. please think about yourself. In fact, I recently refused two government position interviews (experienced and managerial) because the positions are TERM position.

please stay at home---China. I don't think you can survive in Canada. Don't say I don't warn you. You are lack of basic knowledge about Canada. An associate professor in China is nothing in Canadian university. My neighbor, one full-professor from top university in China, is doing as research assistant (not assistant researcher yet)  in the lab at McGill. Even though, he is still a lucky guy to have a contract job.

Canadian government position has more exams.
Test/Exam
Successfully write the following tests: Situational Judgement Test (SJT) AND the Written Communication Proficiency Test (WCPT) OR Examen de compétence en communication écrite (ECCÉ).

If you have time, do something to prove yourself. Don't waste your time. staying at home is not a bad thing. don't challenge yourself.

I don't think it is necessary to continue this conversation with you.

Do you have the ability of logical judgement as an associate professor in a university? I am talking about academic envrionment, but you said [/COLOR] "~~？---別說我不了解西方的大學，我的同學們很多在米國上大學，所見所聞不少，即使在米國的一流大學中，素質差的也比比皆是，更別說加拿大的2流大學了--竟然說會比中國的1流的好，有點荒謬；----至於找不著工作的事情，主要方面是個人原因（個人內向，不善交往等等），而且看看比例，每年招那麼多學生，有一個找不著工作的，很正常阿--至少比國外大學兇殺，吸毒等致死的人數少很多了",  

do you know how many students suicided in Chinese university each year? And how many in Canadian university? Please give your evidence, don't say shit like a "Chinese professor [/COLOR] (generally be thought by western scholar to like lying without any specific data)"[/COLOR]

另外，很高興montrealer貼出來那麼多的招工啟示，幹嗎不去試試？--看看標榜平等自由博愛的加拿大政府會不會接納你啊？==（或者相關的滿足條件的中國同胞去試試阿，有成功的我為你鼓掌祝賀~~希望的我不會等太久~~）

--yes, I have Chinese friends (canadian citizen) working in government, military and defense department. Regarding myself, I work in an academic environment.
But you never 不會等太久~[/COLOR]

and LAST[/COLOR] (means no reply to your any comment if they are called comments)

作為討論，言辭難免有尖銳之處，希望flyingbird13見諒!
只想就事論事，沒有攻擊的意思