我的神, 我的神, 為什麼離棄我?

在馬太,馬可福音書中都記錄了這句話. 耶酥為什麼這樣說呢? 是神暫時離開他嗎?

催肥 發表於 2011-5-2 14:24
ruthrose:

俺實實在在地告訴你,真的很難相信你是個JDT.

你相信什麼還是不相信什麼，那是你的自由。，你捍衛與否，任何人的自由都不會因此而有絲毫的改變。所以呢，你這個所謂的「捍衛」，連冠冕堂皇的口號都算不上。

ruthrose 發表於 2011-4-21 06:41
你那帖子有啥難懂的，你不就是要詆毀保羅嗎。

俺怎麼讀聖經，怎麼與你對話，用不著你來指手劃腳「要回 ...

ruthrose:

俺實實在在地告訴你,真的很難相信你是個JDT.

不過,俺捍衛你自稱JDT的權利.

拎不清 發表於 2011-4-21 06:13
回復 ruthrose 66樓 的帖子

你看懂帖子嗎。挪亞，亞伯拉罕一出生就是罪人，這是原罪說，後來成了義人，再后 ...

你那帖子有啥難懂的，你不就是要詆毀保羅嗎。

俺怎麼讀聖經，怎麼與你對話，用不著你來指手劃腳「要回答。。。問題」，這點你要清楚，對話是平等的，免得你一會又象受了多大委屈似的想不通了。

「你若行得不好，罪就伏在門前。 他必戀慕你，你卻要制伏他。」

與神建立正確的關係，是行得好的根基，人才能因著與神的正確關係，得到神的悅納，成為義人。但是人難免有行的不好的時候，挪亞醉酒，以利亞求死，摩西暴躁，亞伯拉罕自保，但是因著神的保守，瑕不掩瑜，羔羊的寶血，洗凈了這些過犯。

所以，罪人因著與神建立了正確的關係，而成為義人，但並不是說義人就不是罪人了。世人都犯了罪，虧欠了神的榮耀，難道不是嗎？

俺說的你懂了沒有？如果你聽不懂，就沒有必要繼續討論下去了，就此打住，省得讓你陷於「真假基督徒」的糾結中，讓反基叫好，俺是把你當做基督徒，才說這些話的。願神祝福你。

回復 ruthrose 66樓 的帖子

你看懂帖子嗎。挪亞，亞伯拉罕一出生就是罪人，這是原罪說，後來成了義人，再後來又成了罪人。你就一步步的說，他怎麼從罪人成了義人，又怎麼從義人成了罪人。保羅說沒有義人，怎麼出來好幾個義人。你要回答以利亞有罪而不死的問題。不要混過去。就在這問題上來看保羅的神學觀。

回復 拎不清 65樓 的帖子

你想說明什麼？
挪亞以利亞亞伯拉罕摩西等等偉人，他們因著與神建立了正確的關係，他們是義人，但是他們也是罪人，挪亞醉酒失態，以利亞懦弱求死，摩西急躁擊打磐石，亞伯拉罕為了自保，撒謊把妻子推入險境，然而瑕不掩瑜，他們因著對神的信心，成為神所重用，對神忠心耿耿的僕人，他們是人類的榜樣，是基督徒的榜樣。
這些都是聖經中的記載，你從這些記載中看到了什麼？能不能一起來分享？

以利亞為何不死？有罪而不死，有罪是後人之說，不死是當時的人以利沙所說。二者合在一塊就成了有罪而不死。信原罪說就要解釋何以有神和人同行，何以有被接到天上。這是經上所記的事。是避不掉的。

回復 拎不清 62樓 的帖子

虎媽，羊媽，熊貓爸爸，亦或你說的豬狗不如的，都是罪人，都需要拯救，每一天都是新的，認罪悔改得拯救，就是一個新造的人。

現在的牧師,只要有錢收,管你是什麼........

外幫人是狗，現在又多了豬了。那就是不為豬狗來的了

回復 拎不清 60樓 的帖子

Then I will respond to your question for the last time. This time you may be disappointed.
Seeing all the comments you made and the questions you asked, I think I have a very good and clear picture of what kind person you. You often remind me of a scene in the Broadway musical "The King and I". When the English teacher come to the palace of the king of Siam to teach the royal children, the king was trying to test the teacher by asking her to calculate how many children he has and how many grand children he has. After answering a few of his questions, the teacher stopped and did not answer any more. The king thought his questions were too difficult that she could not answer, and he made quite a show in front of his children. The children also laugh with him because they truely believe their father is much smarter than the new teacher.  It is very amusing.
Having sin does not mean we can not overcome. Becasue we have sin, that is why we need the blood of the Lord to cleanse our sin. The Lord has paid the price for those who believe into Him. Not only 以利亞 did not die, none of the believers will die. When they die, they only sleep. One day they will be resurrected. He was not the only one who was raptured before physical death. If any one will live a life like 以利亞 and let the Lord to work in him/her and to cleans his/her sins and fill him/her with God like 以利亞  did, then this person will be raptured before physical death. Apparently you were too busy finding new questions to ask like the king I mentioned but did not think anything about he three lives and four laws. Believers have the law of the Spirit of life operating in us. This law is more powerful and will defeat the law of sin and death. Our natural being, sin and death, Satan, self.., all the negative things have been terminated by the Lord Jesus on the cross. If we join with Him, all He has accomplished will become reality to us.  If you do the same, you can be like 以利亞, too. Unfortunately, you have not even seen the way yet because your eyes are still covered by Satan.
    I did not answer your questions for yourself because I don't want to be part of the game you have been playing in this forum. I think among all the readers there must be some real seeking ones. They seek the truth but can not find much here. I do my part to let the truth out so that any one who seeks will see.
    Before I finish, let me give you a few more verses so that you will (at least I hope you will) understand why I will not entertain any of your future questions.

馬太福音 第 七 章
7:6 不要把聖物給狗，也不要把你們的珍珠丟在豬前，免得牠們用腳踐踏珍珠，並且轉過來撕裂你們。
7:7 求，就給你們；尋找，就尋見；叩門，就給你們開門。
7:8 因為凡求的，就得著；尋找的，就尋見；叩門的，就給他開門。

   

你就說說以利亞有沒有罪，他死了沒有。保羅是不看這地方的聖經的。他在糊弄不懂聖經外幫人。在有太人那裡，人家是

回復 拎不清 58樓 的帖子

That is a very good question. To have answer to this question, we need to look at the verses before , Romans 5:12-13. It says : "這就如罪是藉著一人入了世界，死又是藉著罪來的，於是死就遍及眾人，因為眾人都犯了罪。沒有律法之先，罪已經在世上；但沒有律法，罪也不算在賬上。". Verse 14 dose not mean only during time of Adam to Moses death reigned (死就作了王). It means before Moses, death had already reigned since Adam's time.
Time can be divided into the following period, the past eternity (Before Adam), the age before the law (From Adam to Moses), the age of law (from Moses to the Lord Jesus), the age of grace (from the Lord Jesus to his second coming back, which is now), the kingdom age (the millennium), and the future eternity.
To understand why Paul said "...從亞當到摩西，死就作了王", we need to pay attention to the linking words "然而". The whole verse reads: "然而從亞當到摩西，死就作了王...". This means death has been the king even before Moses, who received the law from God and beginning with him a new age started.
What caused death? it is sin. As it says in the Bible: "the wages of sin is sin." Therefore, sin and death are linked together. Even though sin had been there since Adam, it was not exposed until the law came through Moses. God gave the laws not to let His people to obide by, but to expose them of their sins. Without law sins can not be exposed. Since law started with Moses, Paul was telling us through verses 5:12-14 that sin had been there since Adam before the law to expose it.
There are so many things on issue I can say. If you are seeking the truth, read the whole book of Romans. It is not easy to understand. There are some good references if you want to go to.
Anyone who wants to understand the Bible and see the truth mush come to his/her spirit. Unfortunately many people, even believers, did not know, or did not agree that God made a spirit in each of us. It is completed separated from our soul. Our spirit is the special organ for us to fellowship with God. It has three functions, conscience, intuition and fellowship with God. When a person's spirit died, this person is dead. When Adam ate from the tree from the knowledge of good and evil, his spirit died and lost fellowship with God. His physical body, which was created by God, became flesh, and eventually died also.
On this topic, we need to know the three lives and four laws to better understand sin and death, grace and eternal life and why we need to receive the Lord to be released from the reigning of death and to have joy and peace in the kingdom of God.
Three lives are:
our physical life, in Greek is bios.
Our soul life, in Greek is Psuche, and
eternal life from God, Zoe. This word only exists in Greek. This may be why the new testament of the Bible were written in Greek.

Four laws are:
outside law (every country, state, has their own laws) 律法,
the law of trying to be good and do good things 心思中善的律, which was put in us by God when we were first created,
the law of sin and death 罪與死的律, which is Satan and entered into man through the fruit of the knowledge, and last
the law of the Spirit of life 生命之靈的律, which is God himself.

Come to your spirit, read Romans chapters 5-8.

回復 livingspring 56樓 的帖子


5:14 然而從亞當到摩西，死就作了王，連那些不照亞當過犯樣式犯罪的，也在牠的權下

Read more: 我的神, 我的神, 為什麼離棄我? - 基督家園 - 貝殼村 -

你說說為什麼從亞當到摩西，死就做王了。

二位班竹，神離棄我就是與神隔絕了吧。那不就是你們說的「靈魂死」嗎。怎麼又出來「把靈魂交在神手中。」是交了一個死的靈魂？你們會說「靈魂死」是說「人沒有了靈魂是死人」那亞當吃禁果的當日必死，你們說那是靈魂死，也一定一個死人了。可他活了很多年。那就是他是一個死的活人。這一來耶穌把靈魂交出去就是死的活人了，而我們一出生就是活著的死人，也就是死的活人。怎麼斷定「死」不就成了一鍋粥了。到底耶穌死了嗎？

沒完沒了,
    First of all, I need to tell you that I am writing in English because I don't have Chinese software to write Chinese. Hope this is ok with you. Secondly, I want to tell you that you asked a very good question. The answer to this question is essential for us to know the purpose of the Lord's first coming to the earth as the son of man, and to know God's salvation to us. Regarding your question "是神暫時離開他嗎?", the answer is absolutely YES. God the Father left the Lord for three hours before He died on the cross.
   Lord Jesus was on the cross for a total of 6 hours, from 9:00AM to 3:00 PM. From the recording in the Bible, these 6 hours can be divided into two halves. From 9:00AM to 12:00 PM, the Lord was on the cross and humiliated, killed, by human beings, even by one of the two criminals who were crucified with Him. (馬太福音27:33-44). (Even today this is so true. We have people full of sins, but they still laugh at the Lord and at His words and make all kinds of disrespectful comments about the Lord, to say the least.) During the second half, the Lord was judged and forsaken (所審並棄絕, or 離棄) by God the Father. During these three hours, our Lord took all the sins in this earth, past, present, and the future. Read the following excerpt in Chinese. Hope it will help you understand better.
祂在十字架上受苦六小時。前三小時，祂是為著遵行神的旨意，被人迫害；後三小時，祂是為我們完成救贖，受神審判。在這段時間內，神算祂為我們的罪，替我們受痛苦。（賽五三10。）因此，遍地都黑暗了，（馬太福音27:45，）因為我們的罪性、罪行、和一切消極的事物，都在那裡受了對付；神也因著我們的罪棄絕了祂。（馬太福音27:46。）
Crucifixion is only one of the processes our Lord Jesus went through as planned by the Father for our salvation. By this process, the Lord died on our behalf, He paid the debt we own God (our debt to God is death.) The Lord died for us, so that we can live if we join with Him by believing into Him. What kind of love, what kind of salvation!
The processes the Lord has gone through for our salvation: incarnation(成為肉體), human living(人性生活), crucifixion(釘十字架), resurrection(復活), ascension(升天), dissension. He is the life-giving Spirit now. Read 林前  15:
15:45 經上也是這樣記著：「首先的人亞當成了活的魂；」末後的亞當成了賜生命的靈。 "

沒完沒了, I wonder if you have accepted the Lord Jesus as your life. If you have, hallelujah! Continue to receive His dispensing of life to you. If you have not yet, don』t waste any time to receive Him.
Before I finish, I would like to give you Romans 5 to help you understand even better what the Lord has done by His death. You really need to read the whole book of Romans. It is not easy to understand, but if you really want to get into it, there are some good references you can go to.

5:1 所以，我們既本於信得稱義，就藉著我們的主耶穌基督，對神有了和平。
5:2 我們又藉著祂，因信得進入現在所站的這恩典中，並且因盼望神的榮耀而誇耀。
5:3 不但如此，就是在患難中，我們也是誇耀，因為知道患難生忍耐，
5:4 忍耐生老練，老練生盼望，
5:5 盼望不至於蒙羞；因為神的愛已經藉著所賜給我們的聖靈，澆灌在我們心裡。
5:6 因我們還軟弱的時候，基督就照所定的時期為不虔者死了。
5:7 為義人死，是少有的；為仁人死，或者有敢作的；
5:8 惟有基督在我們還作罪人的時候，為我們死，神就在此將祂自己的愛向我們顯明了。
5:9 現在我們既因祂的血得稱義，就更要藉著祂得救脫離忿怒。
5:10 因為我們作仇敵的時候，且藉著神兒子的死得與神和好，既已和好，就更要在祂的4生命裡得救了。
5:11 不但如此，我們現今既藉著我們的主耶穌基督，得與神和好，也就要藉著祂，在神裡面誇耀著，在祂的生命裡得救了。
5:12 這就如罪是藉著一人入了世界，死又是藉著罪來的，於是4死就遍及眾人，因為眾人都犯了罪。
5:13 沒有律法之先，罪已經在世上；但沒有律法，罪也不算在賬上。
5:14 然而從亞當到摩西，死就作了王，連那些不照亞當過犯樣式犯罪的，也在牠的權下；亞當乃是那以後要來者的豫像。
5:15 只是過犯不如恩賜；若因一人的過犯，多人都死了，神的恩典，與耶穌基督一人恩典中白白的恩賜，就更加洋溢的臨到多人。
5:16 並且一人犯罪的結果，也不如白白的恩賜；因為審判是由於一次過犯2而定罪，恩賜乃是由於許多過犯2而稱義。
5:17 若因一人的過犯，死就藉著這一人作了王，那些受洋溢之恩，並洋溢之義恩賜的，就更要藉著耶穌基督一人，在生命中作王了。
5:18 如此說來，藉著一次的過犯，眾人都1被定罪，照樣，藉著一次的義行，眾人也都被稱義得4生命了。
5:19 藉著一人的悖逆，多人構成了罪人，照樣，藉著一人的順從，多人也要1構成義的了。
5:20 律法插進來，是叫過犯增多，只是罪在那裡增多，恩典就更洋溢了，
5:21 使罪怎樣在死中作王，恩典也照樣藉著義作王，叫人藉著我們的主耶穌基督得永遠的生命。

不就是無體則無魂嗎。無體何來意志，情感人體已成土。那是誰的魂。是他十歲時的魂還是九十歲時的魂，還是四十時的魂。是純潔的魂還是奮進的魂還是頹廢的魂。這個人用什麼魂代表他。

回復 研究 52樓 的帖子

研版小時候肯定最喜歡玩拼圖.

回復  研究
你懂什麼是魂?什麼是靈?
拎不清 發表於 2010-8-6 23:25

建議參考倪柝聲有關靈魂體的論述。

魂就是人格的出產地。人的意志、智力、情感，都在魂里。靈是與靈界來往的部分。體是與天然界來往的部分。魂是站在這兩部分的中間，運用它的判斷力，以決斷是靈界掌權呢，或者是物質界掌權。有時，魂照著它智力和刺激來掌管全人，這就是理想界掌權。如果不是魂肯給靈掌權的地位，靈就不能。是魂決斷要靈掌權，然後靈能掌管魂和身體：這是因為魂是人格的出產地：

　　魂是一個人的主人，因為人的意志是屢於魂這一部分的。靈管治全人，乃是魂願意自居卑微。魂若反叛，靈就沒有能力可以管治。這就是「人是自由意志」的意思。人是完全有自主的權柄的，他並非一個機械，隨著神的旨意而轉動。人有他自己主意的機關，他可以決斷願意遵行神的旨意，也可以決斷反對神的旨意，去跟從魔鬼的旨意而行。按著神的安排，乃是靈的部分最高，應當管治全人。然而意志——人格最主要的部分——又是屬於魂的。人的意志(魂)能有自主的權柄，到底是靈應當掌權，或是體應當掌權，還是已應當掌權。因為魂是如此有權力，是人格的機關，所以聖經稱人為「一個活魂」。

回復  追求永生
魂在聖經何處.神是靈還是神是靈魂?你別管幾元.看看你是幾元說.二元的?聖,邪二靈說?
那就 ...
拎不清 發表於 2010-8-7 06:49

路 24:36
正說話的時候，耶穌親自站在他們當中，說：「願你們平安。」
路 24:37
他們卻驚慌害怕，以為所看見的是魂。
路 24:38
耶穌說：「你們為什麼愁煩？為什麼心裡起疑念呢？
路 24:39
你們看我的手，我的腳，就［知道］實在是我了。摸我看看！魂無骨無肉，你們看，我是有的。」
帖前 5:23
願賜平安的　神親自使你們全然成聖。又願你們的靈與魂與身子得蒙保守，在我主耶穌基督降臨的時候，完全無可指摘。
來 4:12
神的道是活潑的，是有功效的，比一切兩刃的劍更快，甚至魂與靈，骨節與骨髓，都能刺入、剖開，連心中的思念和主意都能辨明。