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追求永生 發表於 2008-7-8 09:24 | 只看該作者 回帖獎勵 |倒序瀏覽 |閱讀模式
各位版主老大,各位朋友:

倍可親改版后,有一項新的功能,叫做「圈子」,其中有一種圈子是為「讀過的書籍」準備的,我也建立一個圈子,如主題所言。

目的是學習理解討論研究應用道德經的思想和精神。力爭做到橫向比較,縱向對比,古今中外,融匯應用。

下面是我就道德經第一章三年前準備一些材料,作為討論參考的一個例證放在這裡。

希望志同道合者參與,一起討論。

謝謝!

[ 本帖最後由 追求永生 於 2008-7-8 09:28 編輯 ]

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 樓主| 追求永生 發表於 2008-7-8 09:25 | 只看該作者
1 道可道,非常道。2 名可名,非常名。3 無名,天地之始;有名,萬物之母。4 故常無,欲以觀其妙;常有,欲以觀其徼。5此兩者,同出而異名; 同謂之玄。6玄之又玄,眾妙之門。

Dao(4) ke(3) dao(4), fei(2) chang(2) dao(4). Ming(2) ke(3) ming(2), fei(2) chang(2) ming(2). Wu(2) ming(2), tian(1) di(4) zhi(1) shi(3); you(3) ming(2), wang(4) wu(4) zhi(1) mu(3). Gu(4) chang(2) wu(2), yu(4) yi(3) guan(1) qi(1) miao(4); chang(2) you(3), yu(4) yi(3) guan(1) qi(1) jiao(4). Ci(3) liang(3) zhe(3), tong(2) chu(1) er(2) yi(4) ming(2); tong(2) wei(4) zhi(1) xuan(2). Xuan(2) zhi(1) you(4) xuan(2), zhong(4) miao(4) zhi(1) men(2).
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 樓主| 追求永生 發表於 2008-7-8 09:25 | 只看該作者
現代漢譯(Modern Chinese Translation )


1.        宇宙的創造者可以在一定程度上用「道」表述出來,但我表述的道和那真實存在的道並非完全一致,不要混為一談。
2.        也可以給這個宇宙創造者賦予一個名稱,但這個給出的名稱並非一成不變,也不可能達到處處適用。
3.        當道處於無名狀態時,它是天地的開端;當道有了定義后,它是萬物的母親。
4.        因此,道尚未定義為「道」時,人們企盼觀賞它的變化奧妙;道被定名為「道」后,人們希冀察測道的疆界行蹤。
5.        有名的道和無名的道實際上同出一轍,區別只在有了名字還是沒有名字。二者出處相同,凸現了道的外在形象的初始源頭。
6.        在那初始源頭的背後,深居道的最終本原。它似一扇奇門當關要路,掌控豐富多彩的世間萬物。
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 樓主| 追求永生 發表於 2008-7-8 09:26 | 只看該作者
English Translation (漢譯英)
1.        The Creator of the Cosmos may be described as the Dao; but the Dao I will express hereinafter must not equal to the original everlasting Dao.
2.        A name may be given to the Dao; however, the given name is not always the same or suitable everywhere.
3.        When the Dao was not named as the Dao yet, it was the initiation of the Heaven and Earth; while the Dao was defined as the Dao, it had become the mother of ten thousand things.
4.        Therefore, under the nameless Dao, man tried to discover the mysteries of Dao』s changing wonders. With the named Dao, man attempted to observe the manifestations of Dao』s border and track.
5.        Either being named or nameless, the Dao came out of the same source, only difference was named or nameless. The same source of the Dao is the original place where the Dao displayed.
6.        Beyond the original place, there is the essential Dao, which seems a gate that controls the outlay of ten thousand things wonderful.
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 樓主| 追求永生 發表於 2008-7-8 09:26 | 只看該作者
關鍵字/分句註釋(Notes on critical words/verses)
1.1  道可道,非常道。
道:本章涉及三個道字,全出現在這一節。第一個道字為道德經一書中最重要的字,隨後所有關於道的講述都和此字有關。老子的道本意是宇宙產生的原始推動力,它自生自律,無處不在。從此引伸下去,道既是宇宙的創造者,又是萬物的撫養者;既是宇宙的所有者,又是宇宙的管理者;既是宇宙運行規律的立法者,又是監督宇宙按規律運行的執法者。道既然集創造者,撫養者,所有者,管理者,立法者,執法者於一身,它就不受任何限制,達到了無所不能的境地。道在製造宇宙萬物的同時,也把各種獨特的規律賦予其中,並使它們都能按照這些規律自我運行,因而道又能做到超然物外,讓萬物自由發展。在以後的章節里,老子給道作了多方描述。第二個道是動詞,意為將道的定義表述出來,或者把道的形象顯示出來。顯示的方式並非局限於口頭或文字表述,各種自然景觀,一如日月山川,風雨雷電,都是顯示道的例證。第三個道是被定義的道,是被人們所認識所加工的道,因此它不等同客觀存在的道。正因為它是人們認識和表述的結果,除了在所難免的詞不達意以外,它必定被人的認識能力的有限性所制約,所以它不可能全面反映置身宇宙大千世界中的真道。在當時的社會,道通常被用來指人道,而人道恰與天道相反,正如老子在後文指出的那樣。
常:常道中的常是通常的常,常道在一起,就是常人所指的人道或道路,有時也指人們做事的方法。老子的具體用意是使用「常」字指出他的道是一種全新意義上的道,不是人們通常所指的道。
清楚了道和常的意思以後,我們就知道了本節的意思,用現代漢語表示就是:宇宙的創造者是可以用「道」表述出來的,但是這個道和日常所指的道不能混為一談。
在理解了老子的道是宇宙的創造者以後,有一點需要特別注意,除了道的主旨是創造者以外,它還有許多化身,例如,撫養者,所有者,管理者,立法者,執法者等。同時,它也像聖經中的上帝被稱作岩石,葡萄樹一樣,有許多外在的表象形式,例如,「執大象,天下往」中的大象,「上善若水」中的水等。還有,上德,玄德,聖人,上善等都是道的等值名稱,如同聖經中的上帝的話語,真理,生命,聖子都等同上帝一樣。因此,在解讀老子過程中,必須根據道德經的文字環境來理解道的含義,不宜一律把「道」翻譯成創造者。為了保持統一性和連貫性,同時不失去道的獨特性,本翻譯直接使用老子的原文「道」,不做修飾和轉換。讀者需要更根據上下文來理解道的具體含義。
1.2  名可名,非常名。
名:本章的第二節出現了兩個「名」字。老子的名是廣義的名,人們為宇宙萬物所下的所有定義都是名。但這裡老子所談特指道的定義。第一個名,是道的定義。第二個名是動詞,指下定義。因為下定義是人們認識道的一個結果,同樣受到局限,所以不可能做到完全名實相符。更重要的是,名一旦確立,它就與實配套存在,不可脫離。而道受其性質決定,它無處不在,宇宙萬物都是它的寄宿之處。也就是說,道可以用宇宙萬物的任何一種來表示自己外在形式。這樣一來,任何名字,一經確定,都不可能完整地表示出道的性質。所以第三個名是已經確立的定義,因而它是固定的,不能改變的,所以它有很大的局限性,只能用於具體場合,任何企圖一勞永逸的把道和某種具體事物一成不變地結合起來的設想和行為,都會把對道的理解引入歧途。
常:是恆常,不變,普遍適用的意思。常名用在一起,指恆常不變到處適用的一個對道所下的定義。老子的用意是指出,擁有這樣名字的道是不存在的。
第二節的意思是:可以根據道的表象形式給道賦予一個名稱或者下一定義,但這個給出的具體名稱或定義並非一成不變到處適用。也就是說,隨著時間和環境的變化,原先的定義就變得不再適用,必須有新的定義來描述和界定變化后的道。
和本章第一節結合起來,我們能更好的理解為什麼道有不同的化身,以及不同的表象。這些化身和表象實際上是道在不同環境的不同名稱和定義。同時老子也暗示,只注意或者只會照搬名詞定義,往往會不能理解已經變化了的道的精髓。
1.3  無名,天地之始;有名,萬物之母。
無名,有名:指道是否被稱為道。當道還沒有被稱為道時,道就沒有名字;當道被定義為道后,道就有了名字。在天地產生之前,道沒必要被定義,所以它沒有名字;天地產生之後,萬物隨之而出,就有必要用定義把它們分別開來,不同的名字標誌了他們的各不相同,所以,道就必須先有名字,因此道就像萬物的母親,使萬物卓然獨立,和其它事物區別開來。
第三節的意思是:當道還沒有名字的時候,它是天地肇始時的狀態;當道有了名字以後,它就成為了世間萬物的母親。無名和有名代表了道的最基本的兩種形態,也是道最初始的內在和外在表現。
1.4 故常無,欲以觀其妙;常有,欲以觀其徼。
故:因此;所以;由於這個原因。
欲: 企圖,打算,希望,計劃,預期的意思,而不是如一些英文翻譯者解釋的慾望之意。
觀:觀察,觀測,引申為發現和追蹤。
妙:事物本質的深刻存在和變化,常常隱蔽在表面現象的背後。
徼: 原意是邊緣,邊界的意思,這裡引申為不同事物相互之間的區別和差異,或者是它們不斷變化的蹤跡。
第四節的意思是:因此,對道始終保持沒有名字的狀態,人們是希冀欣賞道的本質根源和變化奧妙;對道給予了道的定義以後,人們是打算藉此觀測道的空間領域和運動行蹤。
1.5  此兩者,同出而異名; 同謂之玄。
兩者:指道的有名和無名兩種狀態。
玄:這裡玄等於元,元等於始,始是初始根源的意思。所以玄在這裡指客觀世界的開始。也可以說是道的外在形式的第一次,也是最高層表現。
第五節的意思是:不管是有名的道還是無名的道,它們都是來自一個共同的根源,只是叫法不同而已。二者同根,構成了道的本源。
1.6  玄之又玄,眾妙之門。
又玄:更深一層的根源。有名的道和無名的道的共同根源背後的又一層根源。換句話說,這進一步的根源就是道的外在形式的內在推動力,也就是老子的道。
眾妙:世間萬物的內在本質和外在表現。
門: 道的另一個名稱,世間萬物由此而出的渠道和必由之路。萬物在道的門內,混同而一,不分彼此;出了此門,爭奇鬥豔,萬紫千紅。
第六節的意思是:在道的外在本源之後,就是道的本身。它就像一扇大門,掌控奇妙萬端的世界萬物。

本章概述 (Introduction)
老子一句「道可道,無常道」揭示了道作為宇宙的原始推動力和世間萬物的操縱者的兩層含義。一是道是客觀存在的,客觀存在的道是常道,不管人們是否能全面認識它,道都是我行我素。不管人們是否能準確描述它,道都是萬物主宰。二是儘管人們可以對道進行一定程度的描述,但這種描述不可能全面概括道的本質和整體。
老子的這句道德經開篇實質是對人們的警示,我雖然寫下了這篇道德經,力圖告訴人們什麼是道,但我所說的道,並非道的全部。換句話說,實際的道,是存在於現實宇宙當中,並不是在我寫的文字里;學道者若只知照本宣科,不啻是緣木求魚。老子同時申明,你們讓我該給道下一個定義,我照做了,但是這個定義離道的本質內涵相差很遠,不可混為一談。
從老子的警示和申明可以看出,他寫道德經並非出於他的本意。因為他清楚地知道,道的博大精深,非區區筆墨可以盡述;道的玄妙神奇,亦非常人所能領悟。與其不祥不透,引人誤入歧途,不如沉默無言,只留無字天書。但在那位熱心關長的半強迫半勸誘下,老子只好勉強為之,為後人留下了獨一無二的道德五千言。為了盡量免除人們的誤解,老子特地在開篇就鄭重其事地作出警告和申明。這決不是老子小題大做或自我謙虛,而是以他的哲人慧目,預測到人們在領會他的道德真詮時會出現問題,因而把話說在前面。可惜人們在感謝那位館長的執著和欣賞老子的佳句時,往往忽略和忘卻了老子的警示。
接著老子描述了有了道的定義和沒有定義之間的區別。當道還沒有定義的時候,天和地已經產生並存在。換句話說,不管人們管那促使天地產生的動力稱為道還是不予理會,也不管稱它是道還是別的名稱,它都會一樣運作,開天闢地。當道有了定義后,它因之有了名稱。既然萬物的總根源有了名稱,萬物也就各歸其類,有了自己的名稱。萬物雖因各自的特性分門別類,爭奇鬥豔,但他們總能回溯到統一的總根源,就像兒女溯源到生養他們的母親。
有了道的定義和沒有定義兩者各擅勝場。沒有定義,也就沒有限制,人們可以觀測道在宇宙中的天馬行空,輾轉騰挪;也可以欣賞道在人世間舉重若輕,賞善罰惡。而有了道的定義以後,人們既可參照道的定義,跟蹤道的行跡,探求道的真髓。
但是不要以為有名無名二者截然分開,歸根結蒂它們都源於道本身,不同之處只不過是有無定義而已。有名無名同歸於道的大象,顯示了道的外在根源。在道的裡面最深奧之處,有一扇控制宇宙天機的大門,五彩繽紛的萬千世界從中噴薄而出。
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 樓主| 追求永生 發表於 2008-7-8 09:27 | 只看該作者
Notes on critical words/verses (關鍵字/分句註釋)
1.1  The Creator of the Cosmos may be described as the Dao; but the Dao I will express hereinafter must not equal to the original everlasting Dao.
Dao:The chapter refers the Dao for three times and all appears in the first thought group. The first Dao is the most important and primary in the entire Dao De Jing and all contexts relating to the Dao are rooted from it. The essence of the Dao of Lao Zi it the original cause of the cosmos; it is self-produced, self-disciplined, and exists everywhere. Further defined later in the Dao De Jing by Lao Zi, the Dao is the creator of the cosmos and the nurturer of the ten thousand things; the Dao is also the possessor of the world and its administrator; the Dao is also the maker of the law and order regulating the ten thousand things and the enforcer of such law and order to ensure everyone to obey them. Since the Dao plays collectively all such critical roles, there is nothing to limit its ability to do anything in the cosmos. Nevertheless, the Dao remains free from routine administration by implementing the law and order into each of ten thousand things and let them run automatically out of the Dao』s interference. In later chapters, Lao Zi would deliver details on how Dao achieves its missions. The second Dao in this thought group is a verb and it means to express Dao as the Creator of the cosmos. However, such expression is not limited to orally talking out or writing down. It includes also the natural images such as river, mountain, sun, and moon; or wind, rain, thunder, and lightening, they all display as external form of the Dao. The third Dao is a defined Dao as the perceived product filtering out through human』s thoughts on their perceiving Dao. Hence, such defined Dao is restrained by the limited human capability of grasping the whole knowledge on Dao; the defined Dao must be deficient in essence, in addition to the inaccurate description. As the result, the defined Dao is not the actual Dao existing beyond the cosmos and out of human thought. In the time Lao Zi lived, the Dao was usually used to describe the principle of living  of people in that time and the Dao of human was just against the Dao of the Heaven, which was another term equal to the Dao Lao Zi derived.
Original Everlasting:The Chinese character for constant means in this context everlasting, then it implies original, since the Dao ever lasts from its original coming into being. When it was used as to be an adjective to the Dao, it says the Dao since its origin has been remaining constantly in the same character and performing the same function.
Based on the understanding what Dao is, we should pay the particular attention on one matter, that is roles of the Dao. Except for the essential roles we discussed above, Dao functions under many other names or in other forms. For instance, as in the Bible the Lord sometimes is called grape tree, shield, or roc, the Dao sometimes is also under things suck as great image in the sentence of 「holding the great image and going to each corner of the under heave」, or as water in the sentence of 「the excellent performance is as water functions」. In addition, superior De, ultimate De, and Sage are all equal to the Dao; similar to the Bible, in which Word, Truth, Life, and Son of the God are equal to the Lord. Therefore, when reading Dao De Jing, we should interpret each Dao based on its context for it would be not suitable to translate it to the creator of the cosmos. For remaining consistency or Chinese inherence, we will use Dao whenever the Dao is encountered during the translation and readers shall make own judgments on its particular meaning.
1.2  A name may be given to the Dao; however, the given name is not always the same or suitable everywhere.
Name:In the second thought group, 「name」 is mentioned three times. Name Lao Zi mentioned here is in its wider definition and all definitions of the ten thousand things are their names. The 「name」 which was mentioned first is the definition of the Dao and the second is a verb, meaning to define or to give a name. Since the definition is one of the result of man』s understanding, it hardly achieves the complete identical between the reality and its definition. More importantly, as soon as the name is given, or something is defined, the name or definition will go along forever with the reality from which the name or definition is derived. While the Dao is absolute truth and this character determines its constancy in essence, thought its form may vary widely, according where the Dao resides. However, the name, in most cases, is determined according to their forms, not to their essence. Consequently, any individual or all collective, of the restricted names barely represent the Dao. The third name is a defined name, which has bound meaning and unchangeable, relative to the unchanged reality, under which the name is given.
Combined with the first thought group,we are able to understand better why the Dao has several essential identical representatives and many images. Those identical things and images stand for various names of the Dao under different circumstances. At the same time, Lao Zi implied, people will miss the essence of the Dao if they pay attention on only the names or definitions, which relate their forms.
1.3  When the Dao was not named as the Dao yet, it was the initiation of the Heaven and Earth; while the Dao was defined as the Dao, it had become the mother of ten thousand things.
Nameless and named:The nameless and named are two statuses of name of the Dao. When the Dao is not called the Dao, the Dao is nameless; when the Dao is defined as the Dao, The Dao has a name as the Dao. Before the Dao begets the Heaven and Earth, there is nothing in form and therefore it is unnecessary to give the Dao a definition (and none can do it). After the ten thousand things are begot, it becomes imperative to distinguish them by different definitions, or names. For this purpose, the Dao must be defined firs, and then followed by others. For this viewpoint, the Dao is the mother of the ten thousand things as it begets and separates them among each other.
1.4 Therefore, under the nameless Dao, man tried to discover the mysteries of Dao』s changing wonders. With the named Dao, man attempted to observe the manifestations of Dao』s border and track.
Therefore:also means hence or because of.
Attempt: also implies hope, anticipate, plan, and try. However, it does not mean 「desire」 as some English translators interpret.
Observe:to take look at,also implies to discover or to trace.
Wonder:the essence of the thing or its deep cause often hidden under appearance.
Border:  edge, or boundary of things, it also implies the differences among various objects. It could also mean the trace of changes of things.
1.5  Being either named or nameless, the Dao came out of the same source, only difference was named or nameless. The same source of the Dao is the original place where the Dao displays.
The Two:means the two statuses of the Dao: the nameless Dao and the named Dao.
Extreme:Here the extreme equals to the original, the original to the beginning, the beginning means the first cause. Therefore, the extreme here means the beginning the world. In other word, it is the first display of the Dao』s form, which is at the highest level.
1.6 Beyond the original place, there is the essential Dao, which seems a gate that controls the outlay of ten thousand things wonderful.
Second Extreme:The deeper cause of the world. It is the cause beyond the cause of the mutual form of the nameless Dao and the named Dao. In other word, this deeper cause is the inner cause of the external cause and it is the Dao of Lao Zi.
Various Wonders:the essence and the forms of the ten thousand things in the world.
Gate: Another name of the Dao, the only outlet of the ten thousand things to the outside world. The Dao as gatekeeper controls them and retains them in the gate as formless unity; release them out of gate to display their colorful lives in great variety.

Introduction  of Chapter I (本章概述)
Lao Zi』s first sentence in Dao De Jing 「The Creator of the Cosmos may be described as the Dao; but the Dao I will express hereinafter must not equal to the original everlasting Dao」 disclosed two layers of the Dao』s definition. The first layer is that the Dao as the first cause of the cosmos exists objectively regardless man』s recognition. The second layer is that man may have never fully expressed what the Dao is, though man can describe it to certain degree.  
In reality, Lao Zi delivered his warning to the readers: though I had written down the essay and tried hard to express what the Dao was, what I actually told was not the entire Dao. In other word, the actual Dao exists in the cosmos, not in my writing. If the practitioner of the Dao knew only my words, he would be a fisher seeking fish on the tree. At the same time, Lao Zi declared that I had defined the Dao as you requested, but my definition on the Dao had not absolutely fitted the essence of the principle of the Dao.
From his warning and declaration, we can read his mind about how reluctant Lao Zi wrote the Dao De Jing. He should clearly understand how the Dao is obscure and in depth, no one can draw a picture of it even with a magic pen. Its profundity makes no ordinary people understand it. From Lao Zi』s viewpoint, he would rather remain silent than mislead the readers by given an unclear description the Dao. Under the pressure and encourage of the Border Official, Lao Zi unwillingly authored the Dao De Jing with a little more than five thoudand Chinese characters, such he left to the later generations invaluable thoughts on Dao and De. For most possibly avoiding misunderstanding, he particularly warned and declared at the very beginning to the potential readers how the Dao under his pen was different from the actual Dao. This can never be interpreted as his enlarging the concern or being too self-effacing, it was that through his wisdom eyes of the great philosopher, Lao Zi foresaw the problem that later generations would misinterpret his essence of the Dao, intentionally, or unintentionally. Very Pitifully, people in most time ignored his warning and declaration, while they enjoyed reading his book and paid appreciations to the persisting Border Official.
Followed is Lao Zi told the difference between the nameless Dao and the named Dao. Before giving the definition to the Dao, the Heaven and Earth had been begotten by the Dao. That means, regardless the Dao is defined as Dao not, the actual Dao runs in the same way, such as creates the Heaven and makes the Earth. After the Dao is defined as the Dao, the ten thousand things have been categoried under different names according to their types, since their creator has had a name as the Dao. Though their properties derive color fully and various forms and s, they can all trace back to their original sources, just as children can find out their mothers who nurtured them.
To understand the Dao, people can achieve under both nameless Dao and named Dao. Without the definition, we can see the Dao runs freely and borderless; with the limination by the name, we can observe its border and trace.
Do not separate nameless Dao and named Dao, since the two came from the same source, where the Dao becomes the unity, where is a door erecting, beyond which, all things outflow.
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NYLASH 發表於 2008-7-8 09:29 | 只看該作者
「橫向比較,縱向對比,古今中外,融匯應用」     

永生,你真是讀神了。
好,我來參加你的圈子。
天行健,君子以自強不息;地勢坤,君子以厚德載物
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NYLASH 發表於 2008-7-8 09:31 | 只看該作者
其實莊子的文章內容很廣,而且想象力豐富,也是很不錯的。 建議樓主大人考慮一下  
天行健,君子以自強不息;地勢坤,君子以厚德載物
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 樓主| 追求永生 發表於 2008-7-8 09:44 | 只看該作者
原帖由 NYLASH 於 2008-7-8 09:29 發表 [《道德經》讀書圈 - 文化沙龍 -  backchina.com]  
「橫向比較,縱向對比,古今中外,融匯應用」     

永生,你真是讀神了。
好,我來參加你的圈子。


那是志向,但願如此。

謝謝新約克加盟,讓我們一起嘗試。
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 樓主| 追求永生 發表於 2008-7-8 09:46 | 只看該作者
原帖由 NYLASH 於 2008-7-8 09:31 發表 [《道德經》讀書圈 - 文化沙龍 -  backchina.com]  
其實莊子的文章內容很廣,而且想象力豐富,也是很不錯的。 建議樓主大人考慮一下  


我對莊子讀得不多,我看你應該建立一個圈子,我願隨驥。
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