因與果的背後

最近論壇里有關因果的討論十分熱烈，楓樹兄提出「大因果，小因果論」；問號兄認為基督教沒有因果，只有神。

其實，問號兄也談到因果律，這一個「律」字非同小可，世界上一切都有規律，「善有善報，惡有惡報，不是不報，時候未到。」不僅僅在社會上如此，在自然界也如此，到處都有因果。但因果就是因果這麼簡單嗎？那個律又是什麼？那個律，在佛教里叫做「真如」，就是萬物的本相（說到這裡學佛之人又要笑了，我是個外行，難免說話不專業）。這個「真如」如果對應到基督教的概念，就是「道」，就是萬物運行的規律的集合，就是「神」。中文版的聖經在這點上翻譯的恰到好處：

約 1:1
太初有道，道與　神同在，道就是　神。

無論佛教的因果，還是基督教的因果，後面的支撐就是「真如」或「道」，也就是神。

羅 1:20
自從造天地以來，　神的永能和神性是明明可知的，雖是眼不能見，但借著所造之物，就可以曉得，叫人無可推諉。

大乘佛教里的「真如」與我們的「道」相似，但原始佛教並不是。

回復 1# 研究

基督教里沒有道，只有words.

查了一下漢語字典，當道作「名詞「的時候沒有「言語「的意思。
# 1)（名）路；方向；途徑：康莊大～。
# (2)（名）道理：說得頭頭是～。
# (3)（名）辦法：治國之～。
# (4)（名）道德：～義。
# (5)（名）屬於道教的、也指道教徒：亦僧亦～。
# (6)（名）指某些反動組織：會～。
# (7)（名）細長的痕迹：畫了兩條橫～兒。
# (8)（量）用於江、河和某些長條形的東西：一～河。
# (9)（量）用於門、牆等：兩～門。
# (10)（量）用於命令、題目等：一～命令。
# (11)（動）說：能說會～。
# (12)（動）說；跟文言「曰」相當。
# (13)（動）以為；認為：我～是誰呢？

又查了WORD 的英文解釋。 我也沒看出類似形「道「那種形而上的意思。

Pronunciation: \ˈwərd\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German wort word, Latin verbum, Greek eirein to say, speak, Hittite weriya- to call, name
Date: before 12th century

1 a : something that is said b plural (1) : talk, discourse <putting one's feelings into words> (2) : the text of a vocal musical composition c : a brief remark or conversation <would like to have a word with you>
2 a (1) : a speech sound or series of speech sounds that symbolizes and communicates a meaning usually without being divisible into smaller units capable of independent use (2) : the entire set of linguistic forms produced by combining a single base with various inflectional elements without change in the part of speech elements b (1) : a written or printed character or combination of characters representing a spoken word <the number of words to a line> —sometimes used with the first letter of a real or pretended taboo word prefixed as an often humorous euphemism <the first man to utter the f word on British TV — Time> <we were not afraid to use the d word and talk about death — Erma Bombeck> (2) : any segment of written or printed discourse ordinarily appearing between spaces or between a space and a punctuation mark c : a number of bytes processed as a unit and conveying a quantum of information in communication and computer work
3 : order, command <don't move till I give the word>
4 often capitalized a : logos b : gospel 1a c : the expressed or manifested mind and will of God
5 a : news, information <sent word that he would be late> b : rumor
6 : the act of speaking or of making verbal communication
7 : saying, proverb
8 : promise, declaration <kept her word>
9 : a quarrelsome utterance or conversation —usually used in plural <they had words and parted>
10 : a verbal signal : password
11 slang —used interjectionally to express agreement

— good word 1 : a favorable statement <put in a good word for me>
2 : good news <what's the good word>

— in a word : in short

— in so many words 1 : in exactly those terms <implied that such actions were criminal but did not say so in so many words>
2 : in plain forthright language <in so many words, she wasn't fit to be seen — Jean Stafford>

— of few words : not inclined to say more than is necessary : laconic <a man of few words>

— of one's word : that can be relied on to keep a promise —used only after man or woman <a man of his word>

— upon my word : with my assurance : indeed, assuredly <upon my word, I've never heard of such a thing>

本人才疏，從兩種字典里，無法理解 word，就成了老莊那個形而上的道了。

回復 3# chico
英語也是由希臘語翻譯過來的。

回復 4# 研究

Logos (pronounced /ˈloʊɡɒs/ or /ˈlɒgɒs/; Greek λόγος logos) is an important term in philosophy, analytical psychology, rhetoric and religion. Originally a word meaning "word," "speech," "account," or "reason,"[1] it became a technical term in philosophy, beginning with Heraclitus (ca. 535–475 BC), who used the term for the principle of order and knowledge in the Universe.[2]

太初有道，道與　神同在，道就是　神。

如果你們一定要認同老莊的道，就是神的話，就等於接受了老莊的思想體系。就要按《易經》來解釋了。你們的這個神，即不是耶和華，也不是耶穌。而是老莊的道---太極。

回復  研究
Logos (pronounced /ˈloʊɡɒs/ or /ˈlɒgɒs/; Greek λ&#972 ...
研究 發表於 2010-6-11 23:00

你們的宗教，不是哲學邏輯

gospel 1a c : the expressed or manifested mind and will of God

回復 5# 研究
Christ the Logos
Main article: Logos (Christianity)
The Christian concept of the Logos is derived from the first chapter of the Gospel of John, where the Logos (often translated as 「Word」) is described in terms that resemble, but go well beyond, the ideas of Philo:[17]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.[18]

John also explicitly identifies the Logos with Jesus:

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[a] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "[19]

Christians who profess belief in the Trinity often consider John 1:1 to be a central text in their belief that Jesus is God, in connection with the idea that the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are equals.

回復 8# 研究
不用繞彎子，字典里清清楚楚地說：

4 often capitalized a : logos b : gospel 1a c : the expressed or manifested mind and will of God
還從logos那裡繞什麼？就算是邏輯，也不是老莊的道。

回復 9# chico
在8樓有解釋。

如果你們一定要認同老莊的道，就是神的話，就等於接受了老莊的思想體系。就要按《易經》來解釋了。你們 ...
chico 發表於 2010-6-11 23:01

道，就是神的道。老莊所追求的道不也是宇宙萬物的真諦嗎？這真諦就是神。至於老莊所講的道，是否能夠完全解釋宇宙的真理，那是另一回事。同樣的道理也適用於佛教的「真如」。

回復 11# 研究
佛教與老莊屬於人「覺悟」或「悟道」，就像我們搞科學研究，雖然發現了一些宇宙的自然規律，但仍然遠遠不夠。況且，在這些規律後面還有創造掌控這些規律的神。

道，就是神的道。老莊所追求的道不也是宇宙萬物的真諦嗎？這真諦就是神。至於老莊所講的道，是否能夠完 ...
研究 發表於 2010-6-11 23:18

你們的那個「神「，不一定就是佛教的真如。沒準應該是阿賴耶識。

回復  研究
佛教與老莊屬於人「覺悟」或「悟道」，就像我們搞科學研究，雖然發現了一些宇宙的自然規律，但 ...
研究 發表於 2010-6-11 23:29

不多說了。
規律後面是神，神後面就沒了。
為什麼無明，道後面就應該是你們的神，為什麼你們的神後面不能是道（中國人的）和無明吶？

你們的那個「神「，不一定就是佛教的真如。沒準應該是阿賴耶識。
chico 發表於 2010-6-11 23:35

佛教的真如，也不一定是真正的真如。

佛教的真如，也不一定是真正的真如。
研究 發表於 2010-6-12 00:16

真如，名詞而已，不必認真。當初翻譯的人如果譯成張三李四，現在流傳的就是張三李四了。

大乘佛教里的「真如」與我們的「道」相似，但原始佛教並不是。
MapleTree 發表於 2010-6-11 21:25

只是相似而已，勉強可與「道」做以比較。

回復  研究
Christ the Logos
Main article: Logos (Christianity)
The Christian concept of the Logo ...
研究 發表於 2010-6-11 23:03

Logos 是古希臘哲學的術語, 後來被你們基督教採用了. 基督教的來源真是豐富, 古希臘哲學, 猶太教, B......  

Logos 是古希臘哲學的術語, 後來被你們基督教採用了. 基督教的來源真是豐富, 古希臘哲學, 猶太教, B.. ...
信仰平等 發表於 2010-6-12 02:08

別忘了，神是造物主，人是按神的形象被造的。