評「中國式英語和英語的正確表達」 (by The Yeti)

-  雨巷尋香論壇  (http://www.rainlane.com/index.asp)
--  【The Learning Exchange 學習交流】  (http://www.rainlane.com/list.asp?boardid=11)
----  A detailed discussion...討論 『中國式英語和英語的正確表達』  (http://www.rainlane.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=11&id=10895)



--  作者：Yeti
--  發布時間：2004-5-29 11:08:02

--  A detailed discussion...討論 『中國式英語和英語的正確表達』

***If you are not interested in my usual ranting and raving, proceed directly to the next message box****你若是不想聽我的廢話 ﹐請直接前往下一樓[/COLOR]

Foreword  前言
  Sometime ago an article entitled 中國式英語和英語的正確表達  appeared on the Internet. The same article also comes under other headings such as "Common Mistakes." Supposedly, this is a collection of the most frequently made mistakes made by Chinese.

   When you read through the list--more than 200 in all--you will realize that it is indeed a collection of mistakes common to many Chinese speakers of English. However, on closer examination, you will find that many of these mistakes are not unique to Chinese speakers. In fact, much of what is presented is a comparison between the proper and improper use of English -- and in some cases, idiomatic vs non-idiomatic.

  Although I have done some work on discussing some of the pair in cn-trans, go-lucky's place and Tianya (under another penname), this thread is where I am initiating a systematic discussion on all of them. I am not an expert in English. All I am doing is to initiate a discussion, and hope that my action will draw other people in to verify or modify what I have done.    There is no lack of English teachers visiting this board. I hope they will activiely participate by pointing out and explaining why these sentences should be written/spoken in a certain way.
   I am going to introduce 10 to 20 pairs at a time.  Some of the "mistakes" are obvious, some are not. I hope, together with everyone, make sense out of all of them.

    To all would be 轉載者。Please be considerate to the time and effort others put into their work. Please mention the name of the original author and the source of the 轉載 when you do so. Thanks.

--  作者：Yeti
--  發布時間：2004-5-29 11:42:55

--  No.1 to 20

In the original articles (see e.g.: 中國式英語和英語的正確表達（1）
http://eduinfo.inhe.net/yingyu\yy_yf/3723.html%20target=and Common Mistakes. http://www.englishdaily626.com/c-mistakes1.html) the pairs (see below) were shown in this form:

1.
Chinese: It was so late there was no taxi.
American: It was so late that there was no taxi available
  
Please keep in mind that the mistakes (Chinese) are NOT UNIQUE to Chinese.
In fact, in go_lucky's site, I change them to "proper" vs " improper."
However, my set of notes has "Chinese" and "American" in it and changing them again one by one is a tedious task, so I will leave them as is.

The comments in red or blue  are that of my own.   PLEASE REMEMBER THAT I AM ONLY GIVING AN OPINION. I AM NOT SAYING I AM ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I AM NOT AN AUTHORITY IN ENGLISH.[/COLOR] All I am doing is initiating a disucssion.  
   
The ones I don't have answers for I will say so. I sincerely hope that people with a superior command in English grammar will come foreward and explain every pair in detail. We will all be enlightened. Thanks in advance.


[INDENT]
1. "Chinese vs American" is simply "proper Englishvs improper English."
2. Red or blue portion is my personal opinion and are not necessarily correct.
3. 轉載者 請示明出處給原作者 (ID)
This message will be repeated for all future installments of this series. [/FONT] [/INDENT]


[A] = Improper English; [B] = Proper English[/COLOR]

1.
[A] It was so late there was no taxi.
[B] It was so late that there was no taxi available.

First, "it was so late there was no tax" is a run-on sentence.(i) It is two different events that are not necessarily related: (1) it was late and (2) there was no taxi.  Adding a "that" changes "it was so late" to a condition clause.

Second: "there was no taxi", and "there was no taxi avialble" are slightly different.  Suppose there are taxis parked on the street, but the drivers have all gone home. So there would still be taxis, but none was available.

(i) See run-on sentence at: http://www.rainlane.com/dispbbs.asp?BoardID=8&ID=13605[/COLOR]

------
2.
[A] Your coat is broken.
[B] Your coat is torn.

This one needs no explanation. A piece of clothe --what your coat is made from-- cannot be broken, it can be torn, burned, trashed..., but not  broken.
Broken is 打破了﹐壞了[/COLOR]

----
3.　
[A] Let me help you to do your work.
[B] Let me help you with your work.

Yes, that is indeed the way people say it. Don't ask me what the grammatical rule involved is, I don't know.[/COLOR]

----
4.　　
[A] Susan didn't make a fault anyway.
[B] Susan didn't make a mistake anyway.

I have to agree with the assessment by the author that this is Chinglish. I must have seen this incorrect use of the word "fault" over 20 times
in the last 3 years I have been surfing Chinese Web sites.[/COLOR]

----
5.  
[A] He becomes better.
[B] He got better.

　"Got to (the state of) "
  "Becomes (something.)"
E.g. He becomes a monster whenever he gets angry.
( He becomes the Hulk whenver he gets angry. )[/COLOR]　

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6.
[A] I recommend you to take a long vacation.
[B] I recommend that you take a long vacation.

I recommend you=I recommend you to someone for something.  
E.g. I recommend you to Harry for the position of branch manager.
However, "I recommend that you"= I am giving you an advice about something.[/COLOR]

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7.
[A] The last bus leaves at eleven o'clock. It's about eleven now, Hurry up !
[B] The last bus leaves at eleven o'clock. It's nearly eleven now, Hurry up !

Idiomatically,  it is "nearly"  when you talk about "almost to a certain time." Besides, hair-splitter would argued that "about" could be "over " or "under":
   about eleven could be 11:01 or 10:59[/COLOR]　

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8   
[A] It was still bright outside.
[B] It was still light outside.

The opposite  of dark is light, not bright.[/COLOR]

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9.  
[A] The hall can seat two hundred people.
[B] The hall seats two hundred people.

This is one of those "I have no explanation for."
I know it is perfectly all right to say "The hall can accomodate 200 people." I do not know the reason why the first one is wrong.
Didn't I tell you already that I am not an English specialist?
I am a learner just as you are. I am just a little bit more experienced than you do, but that does not mean I know it all. In fact, I know very little about the "theory part" of the language.
But that does not stop me from speaking and writing idiomatically.
All you need to achieve that is to read lots and lots. I used to read , on the average, of two  full length English novels per week.[/COLOR]　

----
10.　
[A] Anywhere will do.
[B] Any place will do.

New, just found this on the Web a few minutes ago.
anyplace, anywhere Anywhere (one word) is the preferred adverb meaning "in or to any location when it doesn't matter where.": I'm willing to fly anywhere. Use any place (two words) when place is a noun: Do you know of any place that sells red galoshes?
Source:http://garbl.home.comcast.net/manual/a.htm[/COLOR]

----
***Red is too strong a colour. I am switching to blue for my comments.[/COLOR]

11　　
[A] Wait here please, I'll come back in a minute.
[B] Wait here please, I'll be back in a minute.

  Yes indeed. I'll be back is correct. I don't think I ever recall
myself saying "I will come back."  Some of you may recall Arnold Schwarzenegger's famous one-liner "I'll be back" in Terminator I.[/COLOR]

---
12　
[A] I am uncomfortable.
[B] I don't feel well.

I don't know what is wrong with this one, but I do know that people

say "I FELL uncomfortable" but not "I AM uncomfortable." [/COLOR]  

(From a dictionary)
comfortable, cozy, snug, restful. These words mean affording ease of mind or body. Comfortable implies the absence of sources of pain or distress: sleeps in a comfortable bed; wears comfortable clothes. The word may also suggest peace of mind: felt comfortable with the decision; has a comfortable income. [/COLOR]

---
13
[A] Common students in US don't wear a uniform.
[B] The average student in US don't wear a uniform.
　
Yes !
This  is definitely an error made by Chinese very frequently.
YOu can say "the common man", but when referring to a person at large, you
use the word "average": the average Joe = no one in particular, just some one
you pick from a crowd.[/COLOR]

---
14.
[A] Who cooked this salad ?
[B] Who made this salad ?

Salad is never cooked. You may have used pre-cooked ingredient, but the salad itself is tossed . 　A  tossed/toss-salad is a mixture of veggies and other ingredients and tossed (mixed) togther. The process of the "mixing' is referred to as "tossing."

In line with this: In many instances,"Westerners" also use the word "prepare" insted of "cook". " Mommy is preparing supper" is as often used instead of  "Mommy is cooking supper."  Many western foods are not cooked: e.g. a sandwich. That is why you often hear "preparing lunch/breakfast/dinner" instead of "cooking".[/COLOR]　

---
15
[A] His restaurant attracts lots of customers.
[B] His restaurant attracts lots of guests.

Customers in the hopsitality trade are referred to as  guests, and less often, as patrons. 　　Professional institutions  (banks, insurnce companies, financial investment houses, law firms,
accountanting firms...) call their customers  Clients.[/COLOR]

---
16　
[A] My friend Tony died in a traffic accident.
[B] My friend Tony was killed in a traffic accident.

nuance: died and kill　　
Just a matter of semantics.  The  nuance between: died and kill 　
I won't worry too much about this.
(The nuance is this:
"Tony died in a traffic accident" means he died during that accident but he could have had a heart attack or any other cause of death not related to the accident-- it just happened that he died during the time when the traffic accident occured. On the other hand "he was killed..." means his death was a direct result of the accident.
Once again, plenty of Americans do say "he died in an accident." I am sure their grammar teachers are not too happy about that either.[/COLOR]

---
17　
[A] Different from me, she is proficient in English.
[B] Unlike me, she is proficient in English.

I don't know how to explain this one. Perhaps someone could help me out on this.[/COLOR]　　
My guess is that you should not say "different from me", you can say "She and I are different, she is proficient in English while I am not." (Notice I use the word "guess")[/COLOR]

---
18　
[A] Little children are difficult to understand that.
[B] It is difficult for children to understand that.
　
syntax error[/COLOR]

---
19　
[A] Don't step on the grass.
[B] Keep off the grass.

Signs in Hong Kong, Britain, Canada, USA all
use "keep off the grass".  With a sign that says "Don't step on the grass" you can argue that "sure, I am not stepping on the grass, I am just sitting on it."  But with "keep off the grass", you will have no choice but to keep away from it.[/COLOR]

---
20　
[A] I get my salary twice a month.
[B] I get paid twice a month..

salary vs paid

Salary is what you are being paid. The process of receiving your money/renumeration is "getting paid."
E.g. My salary is 2600 a year and I get paid  1000 dollar once every 2 weeks.[/COLOR]

--  作者：Yeti
--  發布時間：2004-5-29 11:55:09

--  
I am making a mess of this. My browser keeps on crashing . It has to do with the NJstar Chinese Input software not being 100% compatible with my browser. Please be patient,
I will try to get the first 20 pairs in before dawn breaks !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--  作者：Yeti
--  發布時間：2004-5-29 13:43:53

--  21 to 40

[INDENT]1. Chinese vs American is simply proper vs improper English.

2. Blue or red portion is my annotation, and is not necessarily correct. My purpose is to initiate a discussion.   

3. Many sites on the Web feature this list of pairs (without explanation), e.g.http://eduinfo.inhe.net/yingyu\yy_yf/3723.html  

4.轉貼請註明來自 http://www.rainlane.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=11&id=10895[/FONT][/INDENT]


[A] = Improper English; [B] = Proper English[/COLOR]

----
21　
[A] Would you like a drink?
[B] Would you like something to drink?

(Please note that in the United State, a drink can be misinterpreted as an alcoholic beverage. I made that mistake once when I offered a police officer on duty "a drink" and he turned me down.) This is another one I am not absolutely sure of. You can go up to a bar and say "Give me a drink" instead of "give me something to drink" and be perfectly understood. It is true, though, that "a drink" means "no choice." Would you like a drink ? Yes I would. Ok, here is some piss, now drink it . (Yes, I am exaggerating, but that is certainly a possible scenario.) Would you like something to drink? Yes, I would like to have a glass of Champagne![/COLOR]

----
22　
[A] Let me examine your pulse.
[B] Let me feel your pulse.

A pulse cannot be examined, it can only be felt.　It is not something visible.[/COLOR]

----
23　
[A] I have no exercise talent.
[B] I am not athletic.

Incorrect usage, I guess. This is pretty obvious. "Exercise Talent" is not the proper word/phrase to use.[/COLOR]　　

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24　
[A] Don't expect me too  much.
[B] Don't expect too much from (of ) me.   

Missing preposition. I think we can all see "expect me" is incorrect.   Use of "expect me" with no preposition to follow: You can say, "Don't expect me to do something..."[/COLOR]

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25
[A] I know his face.
[B] I know him by sight.

Hi face, how are you? Long time no see. Technically, you know a "person", but you don't know his "face."[/COLOR]

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26　
[A] I forget my hat in the house.
[B] I left my hat in the house.

Forget is a mental process: I forgot to pick up my hat, I forgot to do this, I forgot to say that, I forgot to bring my car. Having said that, I must say that even native speak do tend to say things such as I forgot my hat.[/COLOR]

----
27　[A] Lend me some money, for instance 500 dollars, Lin.
[B] Lend me some money, say 500 dollars, Lin.

You are giving Lin a rough idea/estimate of how much you need. You are not giving him an example of something.[/COLOR]

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28　
[A] I have a free time.                                                               
[B] I am free.

You may say "When I have some free time, I will take you out for a Peking duck dinner." Here is my guess: I think it is all right to use it in a question form (no "a" though, and needs "specification" as to what the free time is for.) Do you have any free time to spend with me? Sounds perfectly fine to me. But I have never heard "Do you have a free time?"[/COLOR]

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29　[A] The sun rises from the East.
[B] The sun rises in the East.

And sets IN the west.[/COLOR]

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30
[A] The thief got in from the window.
[B] The thief got in through the window.

The word "from" in 29 and 30 are transliterations from the Chinese由. However, in English, the use of prepositions is very strict. Apparently, in most cases, there are no "rules"--it is a matter of collocation (certain words only combine with certain other words.) You just have to memorize them. In this case, however, "from" means originated from, through means "going through." The thief went from the outside to the inside of the house through the window.[/COLOR]

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31　
[A] Let's begin from page 10.
[B] Let's begin at (on) page 10.

Here is something interesting. If you go to google and enter the search word, (with quotation marks) "let's begin from page", all your hits are web pages containing this list. What does that show? That shows people do not use "let's begin from page..." Why ? Beats me? It must be one of these preposition imponderables. (Again, I could be wrong, as I have been numerous times before.) Here is something else I wrote about when I discussed this pair on go-lucky's web site: Preposition. As mentioned before, a lot of prepositions are built into the language and sometimes there are no explanations as to why one is used instead of another. E.g. "The famous Chinese Library at Harvard University." and not "in Harvard University." Another example: 「Life begins at 30」 and not 「Life begins in 30.」 However, there are differences among the following:

(1) "Let's start from the beginning..."and "Let's start at the very beginning..." (Remember the song Do, Rei, Me , from Sound of Music?"
(2) "In the beginning there is light.."
(3) "At the very beginning, all is well."

In (1) we start at the beginning and goes on from there. The narrations starts from the beginning to a certain point in time. (from...to related temporal concept.) (2) "IN the beginning" = at that very moment in the beginning.(3) At the beginning=implies something else happened right afterward. At the beginning, all is well. But then, ...[/COLOR]

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32
[A] Did you attend college?
[B] Did you go to college ?

My guess is this is a matter of idiomatic vs. non-idiomatic expression.[/COLOR]

----
33
[A] I wanted to go to Europe last summer, but it was too expensive so I gave up to go.
[B] I wanted to go to Europe last summer, but it was too expensive so I gave up the idea.

It is the "idea of wanted to go to Europe" that you have given up.[/COLOR]

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34 　
[A] I'll go there at three.
[B] I'll be there at three.

Not really an error. It depends on whether you want to say "I will be leaving here and go there at three", or "I will be at that place at three."
Remember, something can be grammatically correct, but idiomatically wrong, and visa-versa.[/COLOR]

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35 　
[A] I am going back my home.
[B] I am going home.

(I think the missing "to" CI am going back to my home -- is just a typo. As to why one should not say "going back to my home", I have the faintest idea. I don't see anything "legally" wrong with that. If you go for lunch from school, why can't you say "Mom, I am going back to school now"? Someone has a good idea why we should not say "I am going back to my home." other than  "I am going home」 is more clumsy?[/COLOR]

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36 　
[A] His temperature went down.
[B] His temperature came down.

Temperature goes up and comes down.[/COLOR]

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37
[A] I like green color.
[B] I like green.

Green=green[/COLOR] color. Green color, red color...is "Chinglish" (word for word) translation:紅色 (red+color). However , in English red=紅色.[/COLOR]

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38　
[A] Today's newspapers has his articles on Taiwan.
[B] Today's newspapers carries his articles on Taiwan.

An item that is broadcasted or printed in the media is said to be "carried" by that media.[/COLOR]

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39　
[A] Give me money, if you have.
[B] Give me money, if you have any.

Same usage as "Do you have ANY money? " instead of "Do you have money?"[/COLOR]

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40　
[A] You'll have a cold if you sleep with your window open
[B] You'll catch a cold if you sleep with your window open.

We are talking about the process of catching a cold.　After you have caught a cold, you "have" a cold. [/COLOR]

--  作者：Yeti
--  發布時間：2004-5-29 14:15:11

[A] = Improper English; [B] = Proper English[/COLOR]

--  41 to 50

41
[A] Somebody』s knocking on the door. Go and see who he is.
[B] Somebody』s knocking on the door. Go and see who it is.

Since you have no idea who that somebody is yet, its gender is undetermined.[/COLOR]

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42
[A] The head office is in Taipei.
[B] The main office is in Taipei.

I don't see why this is considered as incorrect. North Americans do use the term "head office" quite frequently. In fact, my impression
is that "head office" is the correct expression.　　
***You know what? My guess is that the order is incorrect***
My guess is that the incorrect one is "main office" while the correct one is "head office."[/COLOR][/COLOR]

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43
[A] He cannot read and write.
[B] He cannot read or write.

(It acutally means:he can NEITHER  read NOR write, thus the use of "or" instead of "and")  Notice "and'=simultaneous. E.g., He cannot read and write at the same time.　　
Another set of examples:
I cannot play the piano and sing at the same time.
I cannot play any musical instrument  or sing.[/COLOR]

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44
[A] Where is here .
[B] Where are we.

Here is here, that』s where ! But as to where the heck are we, I don』t know![/COLOR]　　

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45  
[A] How heavy are you ?
[B] How much do you weigh ?

Here is my take on this:
The intent of the question is to find out how much someone weighs. So it is
a matter of semantics.
Technically, when someone asks you "How heavy are you ?" Your answer should be "I am light/heavy/very heavy ." You seldom hear people being referred to as being "heavy or light"  However, a person who has a lot of muscles is usually referred to as a "heavy set" man.[/COLOR]

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46
[A] He was talking in a high voice.
[B] He was talking loud.

For voices, the opposite of soft or low is not 'high" but "loud." For voices, high is used in high pitch[/COLOR].[/COLOR]

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47  
[A] Most Westerners have high noses.
[B] Most Westerners have long noses.

or big noses, pointed noses etc… but not 「high noses."[/COLOR]

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48 　
[A] Are you home tomorrow.
[B] Are you at home tomorrow.

Missing preposition. Or :Will you be at home tomorrow. Without the "at" is informal "rough" conservation  speech. I think that is acceptable when you are in an informal conservation,[/COLOR]

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49　
[A] How does she look like ?
[B] What does she look like ?

This is the famous "how vs what" problem. There are other examples in the list to follow on "how" and "what." Yes, indeed, I have come across numerous case of this misused by Chinese writers.
Remember : "How does..." refers to a process. "What does..." refers to an opinion or a set of facts.
What do you think ?  (Ask you for an opinion.)
How do you think ? (Ask you about the mental process of your "thinking.")

You may ask , what about 'How are you " ?  Isn't that about a state, an opinion?
How are you actually means "How are you getting along ?" -- question about a "process."
And, of course there are exceptions. English is full of exceptions.[/COLOR]

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50　
[A] This is the way how I did it.
[B] This is how I did it. or This is the way I did it.
　　
"How" is the process.  How=the way.
This is the way how I did it=this is how how I did it=this is the way the way I did it.[/COLOR]