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連長大人的粉絲 發表於 2011-12-15 11:57:12 四月青年社區
中國電影界領軍人物張藝謀希望帶著他的新作《戰爭之花》震撼中國和全球，問題是，他能做到嗎？由好萊塢著名影星克里斯蒂安貝利主演的《戰爭之花》是中國衝擊奧斯卡最佳外語片的電影，它的題材在中國家喻戶曉：1937年日本對中國南京的野蠻佔領。
翻譯：墨法兵
原帖地址：http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealti ... electively-nuanced/
Zhang Yimou』s 『Flowers of War』 Sumptuous But Lacks Subtlety
張藝謀的《戰爭之花》華麗但是缺乏明敏
中國電影界領軍人物張藝謀希望帶著他的新作《戰爭之花》震撼中國和全球，問題是，他能做到嗎？
由好萊塢著名影星克里斯蒂安貝利主演的《戰爭之花》是中國衝擊奧斯卡最佳外語片的電影，它的題材在中國家喻戶曉：1937年日本對中國南京的野蠻佔領。
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張藝謀，北京奧林匹克開幕式的導演，已經因為對GCD政權和他們處理中國那段多災多難歷史的片面觀點的奉承追捧而遭受猛烈抨擊。《戰爭之花》，不會為改變那種聲譽做出一丁點貢獻。
評論：
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1、Julie wrote: ：Curse Zhang Yimou for portraying the rapists in a negative light. We need to make sure people know that rapists are really good people, and they never meant to hurt anyone.
詛咒張藝謀從負面角度塑造強姦犯的角色。我們應該讓人們知道強姦犯其實真的是好人，他們從來沒有想過要傷害誰。（從這位仁兄後面的回復看，這一段是反諷）
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2、Stacy wrote: Why is it ok for Jewish people to make thousands of holocaust movies depicting how bad the Germans were, but when China does it, is called propaganda?
為什麼猶太人拍上千部大屠殺的電影來刻畫德國納粹的殘酷就沒問題，但中國這樣干時，就被稱之為「洗腦宣傳」？
處
3、kimboslice wrote: China has suffered greatly from war and foreign occupation, particularly from the Japanese. The atrocities Japan committed against innocent civilians were unimaginable, from human experiments to using sword and bayonets on tens of thousands of people. Why sugar coat this deplorable page in Japan』s history? The Chinese have a right to have their history shown. The movie goers will decide if they are interested in it. I know several Japanese and have been to Japan, and generally they are ignorant of Japan』s acts as an imperial military power in the 1930s-40′s. Shine a light on these facts and let the world know about them, let the chips fall where they may.
中國曾經在戰爭和外來侵略中承受了太多苦難，特別是來自日本。日本對無辜平民犯下的暴行幾乎是不可想象的，從人體實驗到用劍和刺刀殺害成百上千的人。為什麼這令人憤慨的一頁在日本歷史中被粉飾了？中國人有權利將他們真實的歷史展示出來。電影觀眾將會做出自己的判定如果他們對此感興趣的話。我曾經去過日本，並且認識幾個日本人，他們對1930年到1940年間日本帝國主義的軍國主義力量幾乎一無所知。點一盞燈，照亮這些事實，讓全世界知道和了解它們，而不要去管結果會怎麼樣。
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4、ZZZ wrote: $100 million? That』s stupid. Bale is not gonna drawn crowds in China, and overseas the film won』t find a sympathetic audience. It』s probably going to be rate R. They will lose their shirts on this one.
100萬美元？那太蠢了。貝利不能吸引到中國的觀眾，同時在海外這部電影也不會找到一個支持它的觀眾。它也許會定為一部R級電影。他們會因此賠得當褲子。（R級restricted:即限止級。建議17歲以下青少年由成人陪同觀看。該級電影髒話和暴力升級，甚至有色情場面。）
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5、StanleyBlue wrotelease don』t write such an article with bias any more. It disgusts readers. It』s a just movie. There』s nothing to do with propaganda or political things. China is communist country. That』s true, but their people suffered from the WWII like most of other victims in the world. It shows no respect to those people who died of the war at all by pulling political views into a movie.
請不要再寫這種帶有偏見的文章。它讓讀者感到噁心。這只是一部電影，與「洗腦宣傳」或政治的東西無關。中國是一個共產主義國家，這是事實，但他們的人民就像世界上絕大多數其他受害者那樣在二戰中遭受了苦難。將政治觀念帶入到對這部電影的評價中是對那些在戰爭中死去的人們的不尊重。
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6、jkh wrote:I』m an admirer of many aspects of Japanese culture, but I think it』s ridiculous when we try to soft pedal what the Japanese did to the Chinese in the war lest we offend the Japanese. If the Nanjing massacre had happened on U.S. soil, no one would question whether it was appropriate for someone to make a movie, much less call telling the story of things that happened, 『propaganda.』 Japanese cabinet members visiting the Yasukuni shrine is like a German cabinet minister paying his respects to Josef Mengele. Telling the Chinese / South Koreans that the Japanese have apologized enough (as Tony Blair did) would be like Asian nations telling the Jews to 『get over it』 and cast the Germans as victims of apology fatigue. Put yourself in another country』s shoes for a moment, and you may start to be more sensitive and understanding of the reasons behind their anger.
雖然我是日本文化許多方面的一個崇拜者，但我認為，如果為了不得罪日本我們就努力將日本人在戰爭期間對中國人所犯下的罪孽做弱化處理，那是極其荒謬的。如果南京大屠殺這樣的事情發生在美國本土，沒有人會對它是否適合被一些人拿來拍成電影有異議，也不會把講述曾經發生過的事情稱之為「洗腦宣傳」。日本內閣成員參拜靖國神社就像德國內閣首相向約瑟夫·門格勒表達自己的敬意。（約瑟夫·門格勒Josef Mengele，1911年3月16日－1979年2月7日，人稱「死亡天使」，是一名德國納粹黨衛隊軍官和奧斯威辛集中營的「醫師」。門格勒是篩選當時被運抵集中營的囚犯的醫師之一，負責裁決將囚犯送到毒氣室殺死，或者成為強制勞動勞工，並且對集中營里的人進行殘酷、科學價值不明的人體實驗。）
告訴中國人/南韓人日本已經進行了足夠的道歉（像托尼布萊爾所做的那樣），就像亞洲國家告訴猶太人「讓一切過去吧」並把德國人視為疲於道歉的受害者。
讓你自己捨身處境地在別的國家的立場上站一會兒，你可能會開始對他們憤怒背後深層次的原因更加敏感和理解。
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7、Bibubba wrote: This is a 100 million propaganda piece by the PRC. Soon the Manchurian Candidate will be a product of China and rule the last free country: USA. The puppets in Europe are already on the strings of China. Das Kapital is now a Chinese invention, and the world will be overrun by the Yellow Army of peasants and prostitutes. This is not a drill.
這是中國花費了100萬美元的「洗腦宣傳」作品。很快滿洲國的候選人就會成為中國製造的產品並且統治最後一個自由國度：美國。歐洲傀儡們已經在中國的操作之下。資本論現在是一個中國的發明創造物，世界將被由土包子和妓女組成的黃皮猴子大軍佔領。這可不是一場演習。
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8、DEATH BY GOVERNMENT wrote:Both Chinese Nationalist and Communists killed more Chinese than Japanese Army ever did, by a factor of 9x.http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill … 7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime 8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan』s Savage Military
中國共產黨和國民黨比日本軍隊殺害了更多的中國人，實際上有九倍之多
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9、Laura wrote: @Death by Gov』t: Union troops in the Civil War killed more Americans than terrorists ever did.
@Death by Gov』t: 聯邦軍隊在內戰中殺死的美國人比恐怖分子殺死的多得多。
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10、idarklight wrote: @Death by Government The existence of one fault does not excuse that of another. None of those whose lives were destroyed in Nanking should be blamed for what anyone else does, and their grievances should be addressed as a crime on humanity. P.S. There』s a big difference between killing in combat and killing and raping of innocent civilians, including children and women.
@Death by Gov』t:一個錯誤的存在不是另一個的借口。任何曾經在南京殘害生命的人都不應該指責別人做了什麼，他們的牢騷抱怨應該被視為反人類罪。PS：在戰鬥中殺人和殺害強姦平民包括婦女和兒童有天壤之別。
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11、Taiwanese wroteude, what makes you think Japanese』s war crime needs to be portrayed only in a nuanced way? It』s like telling a Jew to describe Nazis 「in a nuanced way」. As of being nationalistic, when people here in US do it it』s called patriotic, while if it』s done in China it』s called propaganda. You, my friend, are no less biased than anyone.
Dude，為什麼你會認為日本的戰爭罪行只有通過細緻入微的方式才能刻畫描繪出來？這就好像告訴一個猶太人「用細緻入微的方式」去形容納粹。作為民族主義，如果美國人這樣干，稱之為愛國；如果中國這樣干，就被稱為「洗腦宣傳」。你，我的朋友，偏見起來比起任何人都毫不遜色。（從ID看是個台灣人）
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12、Gareth wrote:Everything done, not to say anti-China, even neutral will be considered 「propagation」 of the communist party. The authors have no idea they』ve already got filters when they reviewed this film so they only see what they want. Biased and pathetic, period.
一切事情，不是說反華，即使是很中立的，也會被視為GCD的「洗腦宣傳」。作者甚至不知道自己腦子裡已經安裝了一個過濾器，所以當他們觀看這部電影的時候只看到了他們想要看到的東西。偏見，可悲，period.。
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13、Roxana wrote:There are no saints in war times. Schindlers List was a huge success and was definitely nuanced. It even won Oscars! In world war 2 japanese and german were allies so how come Schindlers List is welcome and The Flowers of War isn』t? I think it』s important to portray wars from different points of views (remember Clint Eastwoods Battle of Iwojima and Flags of our Fathers?). The japanese are also free to shoot their own war movies.
在戰爭時期沒有聖人。辛德勒名單是一個巨大的成功並且肯定是細緻入微的。它甚至獲得了奧斯卡獎！在第二次世界大戰期間日本和德國是盟國，所以為什麼你們歡迎辛德勒名單而戰爭之花就不行？我認為從不同的角度去刻畫描繪戰爭是很重要的（記得Clint Eastwoods Battle of Iwojima 和父輩的旗幟嗎？）日本人也自由地拍攝他們自己的戰爭電影。
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14、CF wrote: This is really unfair. For years I have watched World War 2 movies and the Germans are always depicted very negatively, evil, one dimensional villains and nobody complained that it was propaganda. This happens till today especially with movies dealing with the massacre of the Jews. I don』t see complaints that the Germans were portrayed too negatively or that this is Jewish propaganda. Grow up guys. And switch off that auto-China bashing China.
這真不公平。這些年來我看的二戰電影總是把德國人刻畫得非常負面，邪惡，單面的惡棍，沒有任何人抱怨這是「洗腦」。這些直到今天還在發生特別是涉及到猶太人大屠殺的電影。我沒有看到抱怨說對德國人的刻畫太過負面或者是猶太人在進行「洗腦宣傳」。成長起來夥計們，不要再去關注「工業中國」對中國的苛評和攻擊。（這一句琢磨很久，這裡的auto-China應該是指已經全面工業化的美國）
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15、Yiran Sun wrote: This review is disgusting. Period.
這篇評論讓人噁心，Period。
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16、1/2 Tomato wrote: This Zhang Yimou』s film is clearly targeted at the international audience, since hardly any of the starring actors are Chinese.
張藝謀的這部電影很顯然是面向全球觀眾的，因為主演裡面很難找到一個中國人。
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17、Your Screwed wrote: Laurie Burkitt and Tom Orlik; you two have got some pretty pathetic reviews for your article, it seems nobody is buying your pro-Jap and Anti-China perspective…
Laurie Burkitt and Tom Orlik：你們兩個的文章獲得了一些相當可悲的評論，看起來你們親日和反華的觀點誰都不買賬……
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18、Ace wrote:Everything Christian Bale says about this project basically translates to: 「CHINA PLEASE LOVE ME LONG TIME I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND YOU YO」.
This movie was made solely for oscar nominations. Big name actors for recognition, sob story to get the pity factor, and topped off with a ridiculous amount of money. This is hilariously pandering.
If you want to watch a real Chinese movie from 2011, watch Legend of the White Snake and not this sad attempt at an Oscar
克里斯蒂安貝利對這部電影所說的一切可以基本理解為：「中國請愛我更久一點，我全部都理解你喲」。
這部電影就是為了奧斯卡提名製作的。大牌演員，可歌可泣的故事情節，用多到荒謬的金錢投資。這是多麼滑稽可笑的組合。
如果你想看到2011年真正的中國電影，那就去看白蛇傳說而不是這部可悲的試圖衝擊奧斯卡的作品。
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19、Shocked wrote: @Julie： seems like you』re someone who has a very strong fetish for wanting to be raped… maybe you should try visit Congo someday, you might find it a paradise.
@Julie：看起來你好像那種對被強姦有非常強烈的執念的人……也許有朝一日你應該去剛果旅遊，你會發現那裡簡直就是你的天堂。
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20、Julie wrote: @Shocked; seems like you』re someone who doesn』t understand what sarcasm is
@Shocked; 看起來你是那種不知道什麼是諷刺的人
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21、Andao wrote: Looking forward to new Zhang Yimou film about the Great Leap Forward. Can the Communists be the one-dimensional bad guys?
期望能看到張藝謀拍的關於大躍進的新電影。看gcd人是不是會成為單面的壞人？
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22、haily wrote: I』m sick of the whole 「Propaganda」 card being pulled out. What』s so propaganda about this film? Japan made a movie completely denying the events of Nanking and no Western reviewer used the Propaganda word in their reviews. DOUBLE STANDARDS.It makes me sick to think people died without closure or proper acknowledgment whereas Holocaust deniers in Europe can go to prison. SICK.
我為通篇「洗腦宣傳」的字眼感到噁心。這難道不是對這部電影的洗腦宣傳？日本拍了一部完全否認南京事件的電影，西方評論家們在他們的評論中壓根沒用「洗腦宣傳」的字眼。雙重標準！！！一想到那些人沒被圈禁或連一個像樣的承認都沒有做就死了，然而在歐洲猶太人大屠殺的否認者卻被關進了監獄，我就噁心！噁心！！！
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23、Yiran Sun wrote: @Ace The Legend of the White Snake is entertaining enough film to be played in the background in restaurants in Chinatown, with a shallow plot and mediocre special effects. If you want to pretend to know about Chinese language cinema, at least recommend something like A Simple Life, or Flying Swords Of Dragon Gate if you are going for a action/special effect type starring Jet Li.
@Ace：白蛇傳說是適合在唐人街小餐館里播放的娛樂性電影，膚淺的情節，平庸的特技。如果你想假裝了解中國本土電影，至少應該提到簡單生活，或者是龍門飛甲——如果你打算看李連杰的動作特技類電影。
24、Anonymous wrote: Part of the multi-million dollar budget will go to an army of Chinese extras playing dead bodies.
多億美元預算的一部分將額外付給扮演死人的中國軍隊。
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25、Lorne Smith wrote: Propaganda film – ANOTHER from China, bankrolled by the CCP to remind its citizens to hate the Japanese. Why does』nt Zhang Yimou make a not so subtle film about Mao』s great purge where 30 million Chinese were put to death??? Now THAT would sell in the west – That would win an Oscar.
The rape of Nanjing is a tired old tale – nobody is interested in this except those that want to mask who the real rapists in China are to this day – The Chinese Communist Party!
又一部來自於中國的「洗腦宣傳」電影，由中國GCD投資用以提醒其公民憎恨日本人。為什麼張藝謀不去拍毛將30萬人置於死地的大清洗的電影？？？那將在西方票房大賣，那會贏得奧斯卡獎。
南京強姦是一個老舊故事，沒有人對此感興趣，除了那些想要掩蓋誰是今日中國真正強姦犯的人——中國gcd！
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26、Nick N wrote:Well, what』s to be said… For starters, it should be taken for granted that a war film will be biased; that a film coming from China will be also biased; that one involving a portrayal of the horrors that happened at Nanjing will be biased; so we can conclude that, this being a product of human creativity, it is a biased film. How biased is it? I don』t know. Will I want to see it? Probably, be it biased or not. Are most portrayals of Nazis highly negative? I think so. Does that fact make every movie with a negative portrayal of Nazis a bad movie? By no.means does it. Should movies about massacres portray an entire people as evil, heartless monsters for the comes against humanity perpetrated by a small segment of that society? Never! Is this movie committing that mistake, though? I have a feeling that the best answer is 「no」, but I don』t know, as I haven』t seen this movie yet.
喔，該說些什麼呢……先上點開胃菜，它肯定想當然認為一部戰爭電影將是有失偏頗的；一部來自中國的電影也將是有失偏頗的；涉及描述在南京發生的可怕事件的電影是有失偏頗的；所以我們可以得出結論，這是人類想象力的產物，這是一部有失偏頗的電影。
這部電影有失偏頗嗎？我不知道。我會不會想去觀看這部電影？也許，看看它到底是偏頗還是不偏頗。
對納粹的描繪刻畫是不是極度負面？我認為是的。那樣的事實會不會使每部將納粹描繪刻畫成負面形象的電影成為一部壞電影？沒有。關於大屠殺的電影會因為社會一小部分人所犯的反人類罪行就將整個人類刻畫為邪惡、無情的怪物嗎？從來沒有！
想一想，這部電影會犯這樣的錯誤嗎？我有一種預感最正確的答案將是「不」，但我不知道，因為我現在還沒有看這部電影。
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27、Photo looks like Indiana Jones wrote: Talk about creative licencing!
The only thing missing in the movie ad was placing a pistol and a whip in Bale』s hands as he runs in the street to save the day!
Wait, on second thought where』s the sidekick? Indiana had a short-round! Batman had a Robin you know!
談談創意牌！在預告片里唯一缺少的就是當貝利沿著街道奔跑，反敗為勝的時候沒有在手裡塞一把手槍和一根鞭子。等等，用一秒鐘想想搭檔在哪裡？印第安人有短頭彈！蝙蝠俠有羅賓，你懂得！
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28、Vince wrote: Anyone know if this will be shown in secondary markets like the philippines, malaysia, singapore etc? If not when will the DVD blu-ray copy come out? thanks. This really looks like an interesting movie
有沒有人知道這部電影什麼時候在二級市場上映，就像菲律賓，馬來西亞和新加坡等？如果不在那兒上映那藍光DVD什麼時候出來？謝謝。這看起來像一部有趣的電影。
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29、pug_ster wrote: What do you expect with a typical WSJ propaganda review by Laurie Burkitt and Tom Orlik? They are paid by Murdoch to write Anti-China propaganda.
對一篇由Laurie Burkitt 和 Tom Orlik寫的典型華爾街日報式「洗腦宣傳」評論，你能抱有什麼期望？他們是由默克多雇傭的寫反華「洗腦宣傳」的傢伙。
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30、zhao wrote: as a chinese, i really understand why zhang has to make a movie on Nanjing. Winning sympathy of Americans? Why is it necessary? Intelligent Americans know and have capacity to learn about this piece of history. Ignorant ones will not care or just look past it. Face it, human beings are selfish. Most Americans do not care about Nanjing for the same reason that most Chinese do not care bout 9.11。
作為一個中國人，我真的明白為什麼張藝謀拍一部關於南京的電影贏得了美國人的共鳴。為什麼是必須的？明智的美國人知道並且有能力從歷史中學習。只有無知的人才會不關心或者乾脆忽視。正視事實吧，人類是自私的。大部分美國人不關心南京大屠殺，因為同樣的原因大部分中國人不關心911.
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